More stifling religious freedom in the name of political correctness soon.
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Gay cake ruling means Jewish and Muslim butchers must now sell pork.
(45 posts) (20 voices)
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It can't be a joke Oxy, after all religious nuts must know a thing or too about persecution and freedom. Aren't they experts in that field?
It's a transferable skill as well isn't it and that's why the world is such a safe place.
Now where's the nearest Kosher meat supplier... I must get some pork for my coming out party.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I do wonder how many people would gladly provide a service or product taylored to promote a political cause they completely disagree with, such as supplying 'England for the English' party hats, 'No surrender' balloons, or indeed a 'No to Gay Marriage' cake.
Posted 5 years ago # -
In other news:
Shopkeepers now allowed to refuse service to left handed people if it is listed as a "sin" in their particular book of Iron age myths. (23 times in the bible fyi).
"i'm really looking forward to it" said a butcher from Bristol, "it's been years since we've had a good old fashioned Smiting"
A baker from Colchester was reported as saying "Actually.. come to think of it.. isn't gluttony a sin? that's kinda what my whole industry is based on... you know, selling cakes to greedy fuckers..."Posted 5 years ago # -
All right, you're not joking. But it isn't this Daily Mail-created ogre called political correctness, it is a legal ruling about whether commercial enterprises can invoke personal conscience issues to get around anti-discrimination laws. As the law stands, they can't and just as well. The opposition, I have to admit, absolutely nailed this one, satire-wise:
Posted 5 years ago # -
This flared up at a cake shop in the US too...
In a way, it's progress that cake-shops are now the front line of human rights issues..it used to be schools and buses...we've moved on I suppose.Are gays targeting cake-shops with suspected hard-line Christians to break down this last bastion of bigotry? I bloody hope so.
But I kind of agree with the logic of Mr Bamforth up there...if I went into a cake shop and asked for a nice big cake that promoted legalising fox-hunting and they said they'd rather I took my business elsewhere as they were against that kind of thing, would I get compensated?
Posted 5 years ago # -
I hope it doesn't come to that. My regular supplier of Electoral Reform Eclairs on Surbiton High Street is likely to be scared off if he thought he could be legally obliged to churn out Pro-Privatisation of the NHS iced buns or face prosecution for his pick-and-choose political pattiserie policy...
It'll just force the agitprop cake industry underground - out of the reach of health and safety regulations and put the political pastry eating public at risk.
A de-regulated criminalised market for polemic dainties will just open the doors to other unsavoury practice...
what if these outlaw gateaux merchants start cutting corners and - oh I don't know - start storing their cakes out in the rain!?
Posted 5 years ago # -
It's satire it's allowed to be funny and seious at the same time !
I'm a libertarian, my objection to the whole saga is they seem to have deliberately targeted a small business to create a reaction to further their campaign (could they not find a gay baker ??).The law should not be used to force people to do things which are against their priciples and like it or not the bakery people aren't some minor extremists a lot of people would agree with them.
Hence the headline above, are we to force people to sell pork against their priciples or is it 1 rule for 1...
Anyway I'm sure the abuse will now flow in my direction but I must go, I've found a Halal baker and I'm going to ask them to make me a cake of a funny cartoon I found of some bloke called Mohammed..... :-)
Posted 5 years ago # -
"The law should not be used to force people to do things which are against their priciples"
So if my "Principles" include being racist, am I allowed to discriminate and refuse to serve non white customers?If I am a psychopath, my "Principles" could require me to kill and eat little children. How dare anyone ask me to act against my principles!!!
Anyway, as I mentioned, Gluttony is a sin on at least the same footing as adultery or fornication, so, to be consistent with their own teachings a "Christian" baker should take issue with serving cakes to anyone as they would be supporting that particular sin.
Not to mention refusing to serve divorcees.Posted 5 years ago # -
Could you force that Halal butcher to sell porn or alcohol, though? Or force an Oxfam shop to sell dildos or Austin Metro headlight bulbs?
Shops set up to sell a certain range of products, and excluding some products, like pork or porn or dildos is within the remit of a business model...shops cannot stock everything...it isn't like refusing to sell a product you do provide (cake) to someone based on non-lawful prejudice...so this isn't really hitting the spot for me...it doesn't really make the point.In terms of "principles", gay marriage is not legal in N.Ireland, and so you're allowed to be against it. There'll be a vote at some point to legalise it, and it will not be illegal to vote against it. After gay marriage is made legal, it will still be legal to not like it.
Being racist or killing children are definitely against the law, though, and so you're not allowed to do them, no matter what you believe...so I don't think moany git is making his point well either.
The point is whether you, as a baker, should have to accept orders for cakes that express views on divisive issues you don't necessarily agree with. I think the bakers would have been better off making a secular argument if they were really not in favour supporting gay marriage through the medium of marzipan...
Asking the Muslim baker to do a Mohammed cake is probably a better angle, Madjez...But they probably don't do cakes with any kinds of faces or animals on them, so they could just say "it's not a product we do..."
Posted 5 years ago # -
Easier for them to point out that Bert & Ernie are copyrighted characters.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Easier for them to point out that Bert & Ernie are copyrighted characters.
I had thought that as well ! Disney will now sue the gay rights people.People should have the right to say they just don't want to do something !
And to follow from one of Golgo's points how can they be done for discrimination if the cake was to promote something which is currently illegal in N.I. !
Posted 5 years ago # -
The One Star Fairy - Down-voting bigots and people who think they are funny but aren't since 2014
Pipe down OSF the grown ups are having a conversation at the moment.
And you don't know enough about me to call me a bigot any more than I know enough to call you a moron.Posted 5 years ago # -
Hey guys there's rainbow-coloured-spunk-throwing action going on in another thread!! It's like Christmas, Bonfire Night and Pan Cake day all thrown into one...
Posted 5 years ago # -
Re Jews must sell pork thing, it doesn't really compute unless you are a Daily Mail reader.
Madjez - who we must assume is a straight non Jewish butch carnivore kinda guy - goes into a Kosher butcher and says 'Ooh, pork me up, North London boys!' And they say 'sorry, we don't sell pork' and Madjez says 'ooh! you're discriminating because I am a hetero christian, which isn't hip at all!' and the butchers say 'No, we just don't sell Pork and we can choose what we sell but we can't choose who we sell to - fancy a Salt beef Begel boychick and no hard feelings?' And Madjez just goes red. Maybe he does have hard feelings, one way or another.
Now the cakey guys in the court case clearly did sell hand made cakes, but didn't want to sell it to queers. I think this is the point Golgo made.
They should have hidden all the cakes and pretended to sell only leather gear.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Well, it sounds like the Holy Baker's official position was that he was fine selling cakes to queers, as many as they could stuff into their hungry homosexual gobs...this wasn't about a sodomite's right to buy a sweet tasty treat in his boutique...
...but he didn't want to twirl his righteous Christian piping bag in support of same-sex marriage, which he was against, and is still illegal in the province etc etc.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Is the sum point then that it is illegal to refuse to promote something which is currently illegal?
lets work through the double negatives:
Surely it should be legal to refuse to promote something that is currently illegal.
And therefore, it should be illegal to try to promote something is currently illegal.
And therefore, the baker gets a George Cross and the cake-orderers get to do a big stretch of hard time.
Did I miss something?
Posted 5 years ago # -
OK, fair enough. The legal status of gay marriage in N.ireland could've been more accurately worded, but the cake was about changing the law, campaigning to make something currently not legally possible into something legally possible.
I'm all for equal marriage, and I'm sure Ireland will be cool with it too before you know it. Once the law changes people tend to calm down.
But I'm just wondering if this was the only avenue they had to procure their campaign cake, or to what extent these fellows went out of their way to find these Bakers of God, and whether that's a nice thing to do to people.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I'm very much for Gay marriage too, but I think this case opens up interesting points of freedom of expression/belief.
I read an article suggesting that instead of this case being a step towards greater efforts civil liberty/freedom of expression, it may actually lead to a revision of creating a 'freedom of conscience' bill that protects the individual's right to follow their own beliefs...and all sorts can get thrown into the 'beliefs' hat.
by the way, surely left-handlers are the first up against the wall. Sinister bunch.
Posted 5 years ago # -
You'd expect custom T-Shirt printing shops to find themselves in a legal morasse. You can orchestrate a nice clash between inciting racial hatred and freedom of speech with something factual like "the consummation of Mohammed's marriage to Ayesha would now be considered paedophile rape" If a sprightly young NBer would just like to print one of those off then wander round Bethnal green and report back on the overall experience?
Posted 5 years ago #
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