Imagine you were Romanian and woke up one day to find some family from Essex had moved in next door.
(89 posts) (25 voices)
Gerry - that is a FP sub you have to write, super idea.
I have written in here before that part of the problem that people have with the EU is that they are completely ignorant of it, beyond what the mass media have told them.
There is an element of the popular press who have consistently tried to undermine the EU, with over-blown and exaggerated stories of bananas, sell-by dates for ice and other hyperbole.
The fact is, that the EU provides more benefits to us than detriments, but it's not sexy enough to write about how the Europol, Eurolex, and other organisations, have made our lives simpler and safer, nor about how, thanks to EU policies, we are protected from Dickensian employment practices and living standards.
If people wish to leave the EU, I suspect it is through ignorance and fear of the unknown, rather than a well-thought out and considered reason.
Well said Jen, and thanks for the link.
No problem, Al.
The euromyths were covered in one of the many EU law subjects we've studied at uni, but a simple google will throw up umpteen different sites which give the truth on the subject.
As I said though, the truth isn't sexy and doesn't appeal to the innate Xenophobia of middle England.
I was just watching Alizé Lim in the French Open, one of the most stunningly beautiful girls I have seen for many years, and thinking how critical it is that we stop ourselves being overrun by hordes of ravishing French women
I agree with Rick.
Erm, about UKIP: there's a clue in the name as to what they were about, so it isn't even theoretically possible that they dump the anti-EU bit and keep everything else.
Where is their support coming from if not plain anti-EU feeling? Probably a mix of lots of things: a 'sod the lot of you' protest, the really nasty racist element that used to vote BNP and has nowhere else to go, xenophobia in general rather than that against the EU in particular, the inability to think 'I met a Bulgarian who wasn't very nice' shouldn't automatically lead to 'I don't want Bulgarians living here'. Etc., etc.
They've had their moment in the sun, did reasonably well from a standing start and that will be that. Or put it another way, if the polls between the main two parties weren't so hard to call, would anyone mind pay much attention to these idiots?
Leaving the UK would kill UK research - we get far more out than we put in, and closing the door to overseas students would kill the best UK universities - each student brings in circa £40K per annum.
But I guess that UKIP would thrive in a more stupid nation - they have certainly captured the stupid vote.
However, the "sod the lot of you" tendency needs to be properly addressed - along with debunking the Daily Mail/Daily Express generated lies about the EU.
Still, the results mean that there will be much more public questionng of UKIP leaders other than Farage - clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right - Paxman please don't go.
EU - member states' contributions seconded Al and Jen, and here's another good site putting that UK "£55m a day" into perspective - e.g.
- the total EU budget is 1/4 of that of the UK alone, and
- as a % of national income - we pay less than anyone else (although on various other measures we're among the larger net contributors).
like the use of the "clowns to the left of me" quote.
Farage is a media Godsend - especially for the press.
He shifts copy.
The Greens actually have proper policy but the only way they will get any coverage is if Natalie Bennett starts getting her tits out or is caught having a sex romp with Caroline Lucas.
That's how it works in the UK
As for leaving the EU - any sane thinking person would know what a disaster this would be.
If we left the EU, the media (especially the red tops) know they would shrivel up to an absolute irrelevance with virtually nothing to report. Come the referendum and it started to get serious they would soon change their tune.
Without the EU our press would be back to reporting missing tortoise and dog mess.
Without the EU what would they have to rage about?
The EU provides most of our newscoverage - without the EU Farage would have no reason to exist - he depends 100% on us being IN the EU
Putin was able to do what he likes with Ukraine because they are not part of EU...Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are (probably) safe because they are in the EU
The UK is little more than an ageing gazelle - but while we are part of the EU we have safety in numbers.
Besides - when this TTIP deal gets passed into law the EU will no longer be the dominant force in our lives. We will be ruled by US corporate lawyers and lobbyists.
Could be worse - look what happened in France
The worst, and most worrying, thing on the horizon is the TTIP deal.
Think things are bad with big business dictating to government now? It's going to become 100 times worse with that trade deal. We will become, without a doubt, less of a power to be reckoned with, and more of a plaything to do as it's told.
Be afraid people, be very afraid.
And the Scots should be afraid of voting for independence without knowing what this will really involve.
We live in interesting times.
Scroat, the fear of what may come with independence scares me far, far less than the thought Ukip forming a coalition with anyone at the next general election.
I've gone from being an indy-sceptic (see thread on here ages and ages ago) to being firmly in the yes camp for a number of reasons. Logical research, consideration, comparative studies. What sealed the deal for me, and many of the undecided up here, was when Cameron and Gideon started telling us what we can and can't do.
Perhaps a clever double bluff on their part, but it's sparked a lot of debate here as to why, if we're such a drain on rUK's resources and revenue, do they so desperately want us to stay?
The prospect of an independent Scotland, or bigotry and intolerance from the government?
Not a hard choice at all.
Can't we just go back to, I dunno, tribes or something.
Ooh that gives ma an idea.
I agree Jeni - the Tories' stance is a little odd. Without Scotland they'd have a much better chance of winning a majority every time.
'Love' the tags. If the tagger truly thinks I know nothing of the EU, be a proper, actual man (I don't think a woman would be so cowardly) and stand up and say it.
The 'you don't agree with me, so you must be wrong' mentality left me in the playground, but it is clearly alive and well here.
Got the balls?
PS - I realise that the tags don't just relate to me, but they did appear after I put across information on this thread.
Given the lack of other real news the BBC are just doing their job.
I think by earthquake we are talking a few broken windows and car alarms going off in Birmingham rather than widespread devastation and tsunami in the pacific.
And pigeons are quite bright, research has shown...
But aren't we all geographically or culturally so far removed from Westminster that it doesn't seem relevant any more? Like I've said before, we all get to vote.
Cue Oxy to come in with a quote about democracy being bad but the least bad we can manage.
But Jeni. If you leave the UK you will also leave the EU. Isn't voting for independance exactly the same as voting UKIP?
Won't UKIP cease to have relevance in an independent Scotland? They won't be part of the UK any more.
Anyway, she's busy revising apparently.
Bj, I don't know how many times I need to say this, but there is nothing to say that an independent Scotland wouldn't be a member of the EU. As part of the UK, we are already signatories to the treaties, and since we are currently citizens of the EU, and there are no precedents to follow, the likelihood is that membership would remain.
Scroat, revision over, exam sat to the best of my abilities (I'm never staying up until 4am when I have a 9am exam again).
Yes, but they'd still have a Scots MEP, and that is worrying. Anyway, lack of sleep catching up on me, and now barely able to think let alone construct reasoned argument.
Sory Jeni. I was just winding you up. <Slaps wrist> Hope the exam went well.
I know I've said it a million times but if UKIP get their way won't they all lose their jobs? So the best way to get rid of them is to vote for them and hope they are succesful then they'll disapear in a puff of logic. N'est pas?
Sorry, bj, I was stupid with tiredness, and what now is clearly a wind up, was beyond me.
Yep, agree about the puff of logic, but don't think I could ever bring myself to vote for them.
Jeni, thanks for the thought on TTIP, I need to think this through.
So, US-EU alliance on one side, and unlikely Russia-China alliance on the other. Massive demand for goods & energy on one side, massive supply potential on the other. General corruption & corporate control on one side, and general corruption & state control on the other.
Hope the exams are going ok, btw
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