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Some Advice From A Friend

(28 posts) (15 voices)

Started 9 months ago by Titus
Latest reply from deceangli

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Titus "a friend unto himself".

Titus

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A "friend" recently sent me the following information. I am certain that some, if not most, of the informtion is wrong, but I would be grateful if somone could clarify which bits before I condemn him as an ignorant, bigotted fascist.

For instance, as far as I know, most prisons are not air conditioned. And the health care is not brilliant either. Quite apart from the risk of getting stabbed / poisoned / beaten by one of the other lags, I know a man who was diagnosed with throat cancer while in prison and, in effect, evntually died of malnutrition because (according to his sister) they were unable/unwilling to supply him with any nourishing food which he was actually able to eat except (ironically) porridge. Not a pleasant way to die.

So: anyone got any Biscuitsfacts?
_ _ _

"Exciting new BUPA Programme:

You're a sick senior citizen and the government says they are going to sell your house to pay for your nursing care.

So what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 65 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot four Politicians.

Of course, this means you will be sent to prison..... where you will get three meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need!

Need new teeth? No problem.

Need glasses? That’s great.

Need a new hip, knees, kidney, lungs or heart?

They’re all covered.

As an added bonus, your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.

And who will be paying for all of this?

It’s the same government that just told you that they cannot afford to pay for your nursing care.

And you can get rid of 4 useless politicians while you are at it.

Plus, because you are a prisoner you don't have to pay income tax.

Is this a great country or what?"
_ _ _

Posted 9 months ago #
throngsman

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I get these forwarded on emails like this from the father in law all the time - it's not his fault he and all his friends read the Daily Mail I guess. I've never been to prison (yet - but then again I haven't discounted going into politics at some stage, so maybe I will) however I would happily keep my current life with any of the sh!t that gets thrown at me from time to time rather than go on what many insist is a holiday camp. For sure, I guess many prisoners become inured to prison life, but holiday camp? Have these people never been to Pontins at Prestatyn? I spent a fortnight there one weekend.

I say just ignore the message, like I'm failing to right now. Shooting four politicians sounds interesting though. Do we get to choose?

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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Of course you get to choose which politicians.

Any nominations?
_ _ _

Regarding the forwarded email - I'm not bothered either way. Like most people with email, I receive all sort of crap, some of it tedious, some of it funny.

However with ones like this, I get annoyed with self-righteous smartarse Guardian readers who sneer at such stuff, but who don't seem to be willing to or able to refute any of the supposed "facts". I hereby invite them so to do.

Posted 9 months ago #
throngsman

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I presume the air conditioning is courtesy of the window with only bars, as seen on TV

Posted 9 months ago #
rikkor

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Titus, you left out forced a-slove. That is one of the downsides/benefits to prison life, depending on your perspective

Posted 9 months ago #
dvo4fun

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[Takes several deep breaths, counts to 20 (oh yes I've done the anger management familiarisation training) but eventually gives in]

Of course, this means you will be sent to prison..... where you will get three meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need!
*How many meals should prisoners get? Three seems a reasonable number.
What is otherwise envisaged? Open-air prisons? No heating? Individual heating outlets? Central heating sounds a reasonable, practical and cost effective option.
None of the many prisons I've visited have had air-con and are generally rather smelly in summertime. Mind you I've seldom visited the staff offices*

Need new teeth? No problem.

Need glasses? That’s great.

Need a new hip, knees, kidney, lungs or heart?

They’re all covered.
*True, as with any other UK resident. What is the alternative. No health care for prisoners?*

As an added bonus, your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.
*That probably says more about the author's relationship with his/her own offspring than the UK prison system. Arrangement used to be that prisoners sent out, some weeks in advance,'visiting orders' to those planning to come and visit.When the visitors arrive they have to wait in a queue, sun, rain or snow, pass security checks, inspections, and maybe sniffer dogs and electronic fingerprinting & then get escorted through a series of clanging doors before fetching up in a bleak visiting area with bare tables and chairs (usually bolted to the floor). Unless there's security alert in which case they won't get in at all.*

And who will be paying for all of this?
*Well I guess it would have to be the government. What are the other options?*

It’s the same government that just told you that they cannot afford to pay for your nursing care.
*Nursing care is paid for, it's 'social care' - including, strangely, care for those with that well-known social issue dementia - which doesn't*

And you can get rid of 4 useless politicians while you are at it.
*Or alternatively twats like your friend and 3 of his other friends*

Plus, because you are a prisoner you don't have to pay income tax.
*Well, it's not the prisoner status that means prisoners don't pay income tax it's much more usually because err... the prisoners don't have an income. The clue is in the words 'income tax' Jeffrey Archer almost certainly paid income tax whilst inside*

Next time this clown sends you an email that you bother to open and find similar stuff inside ask for detailed source material for all the bollocks claimed in it.

Sorry, I tried to resist.

Posted 9 months ago #
Not Amused

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5* dvo
I did resist but I'm glad you didn't.

There's all the lovely things not mentioned as well.

Locked up, company not friendly, toilets not good, can't just pop out to the shops/pub ...

Posted 9 months ago #
camz

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@Rikkor

Surely there upsides and downsides? Fast, repeating upsides and downsides at that. Ooyah!

Can't we give prisoners jobs? I appreciate that manual labour means feeding them more, so maybe something more suited to an indoors, sitting down (previous comments on Ooyah! excepted) environment?

Something that doesn't involve too much responsibility, education or empathy?

Town Planning Managers?

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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So, dvo, what you appear to be saying is that in fact, most of the points made in the email are not wrong.

I am disappointed.

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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"... company not friendly, toilets not good, can't just pop out to the shops/pub ... "

Indeed. Sounds like the situation of many innocent, honest but elderly/vunerable/disabled citizens.

Posted 9 months ago #
Golgo13

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I got a similar e-mail from a similar friend, and secretly I agree with the sentiment, but rather than just come out and say that, I would like to pretend I'm going to draft a rebuttal and ask you good biscuiteers for tips.

-------------
How to beat inflation

The cost of living is going up and incomes aren't keeping pace, so I've come up with a way to beat inflation using a kitchen knife, or a pair of scissors.
Walk up to a group of the bankers who made the inflation and start stabbing away. After a while they'll put you in a nice inflation free prison.
Did you know prisoners don't have to pay tax and duty on petrol or the toll on the Severn Bridge, but when I went to Tenby it cost a bloody fortune. And it was raining all day. Do they have rain in prisons? Of course they don't.
My knee started playing up so I went into a cafe but have you seem the price of tea? I bet they get free tea in prisons. My Sandra called the other day. First time in bloody months. I thought to me self what is it she wants now. At least if I was in prison people would know they can't borrow money off me. I need to get that fence seen to before the dog gets out and that's going to cost. Prisoners don't have to pay to get their fences seen to, you can count on that. Oh yes. I'm sure their fences get seen to as soon as you like. "Would sir like his fence mended now, or after sir's free cup of tea?". I bet that's what it's like in prison.

---------

Et ceteras.

Posted 9 months ago #
FOAD

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The solution is to reinstate the death penalty for all crime, from littering upwards.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gerontius

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Anybody who commits a crime should be made to live next door to TightAss instead of serving a prison sentence.
Cheaper option and far worse punishment than being banged up for 5 years.....and the sex is only optional.

Posted 9 months ago #
deceangli

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Why 4 politicians? Why not 6? Or just 1?

I don't think the author has thought this through properly.

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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I was hoping for more specific instances of factual errors. The income tax thing is one, of course. But how many others? For instance, I don't think the health care in prison is good - and I quoted one example. There may be others, but I only know three people who have been sent to prison, and only spoken to one since he came out. One other died in prison and the other died shortly after being released.

But when I tried to think of how unpleasant it actually is in prison, one thing was the violence. Until I remembered the number of prosecutons there have been of care home staff for beating elderly and vulnerable people. At least in prison it's usually your fellow inmates who are likely to assault you rather than the staff.

Obviously (as Golgo13 made clear) being in prison is crap, compared with how most of us normally live. But this email did at least remind me how equally crap (or sometimes worse) it is (or can be) to be an elderly/disabled/vulnerable person in so-called "care".

Posted 9 months ago #
Ironduke

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Number of politicians you have to murder is set by the tarrif for that crime. It's a bit like going to confession, but with options.

I find you guilty of shoplifting. I hereby sentence you to either 1) a month in prison, 2) three politician executions, or 3)half a dozen merchant banker slaughters and a victim awareness course. You choose. If you chose option 2 or 3 you can collect ammunition from the court clerk and give them one from me,however if you chose option1 you'll be taking one from them.

(Gavel bang) ((except I know there wouldn't be a gavel bang on a British court, 'cos I watched QI, but it still feels right to put it in)).

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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"((except I know there wouldn't be a gavel bang on a British court, 'cos I watched QI"

It can be fascinating to follow a crown court case from the public gallery (rather than as a witness, a defendant or a member of the jury) - actually more interesting than many fictional court dramas.

One of the things whch I hadn't realised was that the public gallery is not cleared even when the jury is sent out while the court discusses technical points of law. In one case, I watched while the jury were sent out and the judge and counsel then discussed the evidence needed to establish intent to deal, as distinct from mere possession of drugs (this was incidental to the principal case, which was one of arson). There seemed to be an impicit assumption or acceptance that drugs - a not inconsiderale quantity - were involved and had been found.

The jury were then re-admitted, and the defence counsel managed to convince them that there was no evidence of there ever having been any drugs found or involved at all ...

Fascinating stuff.

Posted 9 months ago #
The All New Jeni B

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There seemed to be an impicit assumption or acceptance that drugs - a not inconsiderale quantity - were involved and had been found.

Was there any evidence of this? I ask, because it is not uncommon for the CPS to prosecute charges which have stronger evidence, and possibly a higher penalty tariff, than to attempt to gain a conviction on a lesser, or weaker charge.

Also, deals can be brokered whereby the defence agrees to accept proceeding with one charge if another is dropped. This can happen for a number of reasons, of course, but principally amongst them are attaining higher conviction rates, and cost. Justice is served, and the Daily Mail readers are appeased.

Posted 9 months ago #
Al OPecia

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Nothing appeases Daily Mail Readers Jen, someone is always out to get them. Unfortunately, they never do get them.

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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"There seemed to be an impicit assumption or acceptance that drugs ..." - just that.

They were not discussing whether there actually were or were not any drugs involved, or what proof there might have been either way. But as I said, the legal technicalities were discussed in a manner implying an acceptance that drugs may well have been present - a very subtle distinction which I presume lawyers are familiar with, but an education for a layman like me.

Posted 9 months ago #
The All New Jeni B

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No wonder cancerous house prices are so prevalent amongst them Al.

Nothing to do with lawyer knowledge Titus, just a general understanding of how the judicial system works. I was aware of these 'bargains' long before I began my studies.

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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This discussion, however, was not about bargaining.

As I understand it, plea baraining usually takes place between counsel, outside court. This however was the judge addressing counsel.

As far as I could understand (and I am a layman with even less knowledge of drugs than of law!) they were not discussing whether drugs were present or not, or what evidence there might be in that regard, or whether charges relating to them were to be pressed, dropped or bargained.

The judge (as far as I could determine) was simply anxious to establish that counsel were fully aware of the different kind of evidence needed to make a case for conviction for differing drug offences.

But hey, give me a break - this was about 25 years ago, and was just one part of one of a series of cases I sat in on one wet Thursday afternoon.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ironduke

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I see the point. They cleared the jury, discussed whether having half a pound of skag constituted a dealing offence or personal use, then brought the jury back in and a silky tongued lawyer persuaded the jury that the half pound of skag was actually more likely icing sugar for a cake his client was considering baking, using a bent spoon and syringes to mix the batter and a lighter to bake it.

Fair summary?

Posted 9 months ago #
Scroat

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Nothing appeases Daily Mail Readers Jen, someone is always out to get them. Unfortunately, they never do get them.

We live in hope...

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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Alomost, but not quite, Ironduke.

After the Judge clarified, in general terms, what might be acceptable proof of drug dealing as distinct from drug possession, and despite the subject of drugs having been mentioned briefly at the start of the trial, the topic did not (as far as I recall) crop up again. This was a trial about arson, remember, not drugs.

It occurred to me at the time that some of the jury may have asked themselves subsequently "What was that bit about the woman having drugs all about? Why didn't we hear more about that?" and that I, as a mere spectator, had heard more discussion about this than they had.

Posted 9 months ago #
Sir Lupus

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Golgo - surely fences end up in prison too? if they get caught anyway

I guess the reply to these emails is "put up or shut up". in the vain hope they'll chose option 2, cos you know they won't go for option 1 (unless they really are that stupid).

right, back to this quite interesting discussion about criminal justice procedures...

Posted 9 months ago #
Titus

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You can please yourselves whether you believe me or not (I don't care either way) but I find many of these absurd right-wing nonsense eamils rather tedious.

However, rather than ignoring them (which allows them to flourish and spread, on the basis that "clearly, they must be true, because no-one has challenged them") I would rather find out the true facts, and where possile, expose such emails as not just nonsense but as outright lies.

A good example of this was one fable which compared the number of criminal convictions, bankruptcies and other undesirable or anti-social activities among elected representatives with the rate of such incidences among the population generally.

The deceit in this case was that the number of cases quoted of misbehaviour by elected representatives was the overall total, over a lengthy period of time, and this was compared with the incidence of comparable misbehaviour within the general population per year. Once this deceit was pointed out, the fable lost its credibility and quickly faded away.

I was hoping the people better informed than me - such as many of the readers here - might be able to refute this latest email equally effectively, by producing some accurate and truthful contrary evidence.

So far, I am dismayed by their apparent reluctance or inability to do so, which (regardless of what anyone may think of the regime within our prisons) paints a very bleak picture of the way elderly, vulnerable and disabled (and completely innocent) people get treated in this country. How life in prison compares with the lives of most of us healthy, active and able-bodied people (the comparison alluded to by Golgo13) is rather less relevant and was not the essential point of that email.

Posted 9 months ago #
deceangli

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I'm not sure it's entirely accurate to describe NB writers as "healthy, active and able-bodied people".

Posted 9 months ago #