nod to Arthur (who never makes "hollow promises" in chat)!
Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater's wife accuses him of hollow premises
(19 posts) (4 voices)
Nice one Lindy but maybe a little too subtle for a British audience who aren't as acquainted with the rhyme as our American cousins. However, worthy of 5 stars if people will make the effort to look it up.
Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater
Aha! That explains a lot. Thanks for the link.
I suspected the multiple-meaning word 'premises' (a building) might be being misconstrued, or that it really was too hollow a premise (an assumption; something taken for granted). Turns out it was the latter: I assumed that folks would eat up the pumpkin, but the pumpkin was nowhere in sight.
Looks like this little piggy should get to know her market -- or run wee wee wee all the way home.
Wait; is that an American one, too? Better look it up...
That's really creepy weepie Arthur ;0)
Oooo, Arthur, that's nasty! I'll never think the same of Peter Peter again. Here I thought he was just the old-fashioned, 'keep-the-little-lady at home' type, not a D.I.Y. wife-killer.
Scandal on both sides of the Atlantic!
The unambiguous up-the-chimney version was the one we chanted in the playground when I was very small. Perhaps this reflects the cultural differences between Europe and the USA.
The Scottish version has her "i' the wa'" (bricked up in the wall).
Glad I didn't play on that playground. We had enough trouble with the boys trying to see our knickers all the time. At least they weren't singing about shoving us girlies up the chimney or bricking us up in a wall.
I wonder if this goes back to Henry VIII.
According to those who do nursery rhymes as a living, it's 19th or even early 20th century.
I'm browsing through my back-issues of the London Illustrated News and the Dundee Courier to see if I can find the news story it's based on.
Wikipedia says re the Peter Peter version: 'The first surviving version of the rhyme was published in Mother Goose's Quarto: or Melodies Complete, in Boston, Massachusetts around 1825.' Granted, this is Wikipedia, but the source for it is listed as The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes.
They show an illustration from the 1901 edition of the Boston book.
The chimney version (or the brick wall one) must be based on the origin story, assuming there is one and it wasn't just written by some guy as a warning to the Mrs.
Pumpkins nowadays can get pretty big (Wiki: 'the current world record holder is Chris Stevens's 1,810 pound'-er: @823 kilos), but they're still snug for a coffin. Pumpkins were the only thing that stood between New England colonists and starvation, for many a winter. They grew sick to death of them, had a real love/hate relationship with them.
Wikipedia gives exactly the same source for the English and Scottish versions, so we're none the wiser on the origin (unless someone has access to a copy of The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes).
I'd bet that it's a gruesome murder, though.
One can only hope.
Hey, diagobd2! Brand new Spam member, welcome! I think you're pretty smart Spam!
I liiiiiiike it! (Until someone gets hurt.)
Spammer, spanner or just a simple tool?
'Glad I didn't play on that playground. We had enough trouble with the boys trying to see our knickers all the time.'
Now that's odd, I always thought 'knickers' to Americans are old fashioned short trousers worn by men, just like 'suspenders' to them are what we call braces.
How the comedy potential of this has never been explored is a mystery to me.
I was speaking the vernacular.
(And, as always, being a Smarty Pants!)
Yes, indeed, Americans usually refer to women's underwear (the bottoms) as "panties", but "pants", to us, means "trousers". So pants jokes go over our heads. Most Americans know knickers, though, and some have even started saying "don't get your knickers in a twist" -- but some have Americanized it and say, "Don't get your panties in a bunch."
You can't fool us, Lindy. We know Cheltenham Ladies' College material when we see it.
Imagine my surprise to learn that my supposed youth in the St. Lawrence River Valley of New York State's North Country was just an elaborate false memory, and that I hadn't spent my formative years hitchhiking and swigging cheap apple wine around (illegal) campfires and singing folk songs in pickup trucks, but, instead, was attending an independent boarding and day school for girls aged 11 to 18 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England.
Thanks for letting me know.
It's a pleasure, Lindy. And thanks for the pants gag.
You must log in to post.