Pastor Martin Niemöller wins 'I Told You So' Award in trial by twitter clampdown
(12 posts) (5 voices)
That's a name I haven't heard in a while and a half. I'm pretty sure it was the good pastor that gave us a talk at my old school, sometime in the 60s. It was either him or or his best mate anyway. Long time ago and no idea what he said now, probably something to do with Hitler not being a very nice person.
Still can't quite grasp your sub though.
Seems like Nowherefast is saying this Twitter "clampdown" equals the sort of censorship Niemoller warned about in his famous poem about facing up to the Nazis.
nil points for the comparison..
You're telling me, Bunny, that this bloke wrote a famous poem! I'd have been doing English lit when he visited: Wilfred Owen and the metaphysicals etc. This is the first I've heard of a famous poem. Just goes to show what a crap load of teachers they were in those days.
BTW as you know what the post is about give the man a star or two
Yup . 60's A levels with Wilfred - you and me both.
Ok - Oi'll give him a four.
Thing about the Niemoller 30's poem is today you can swap the word Jew for Writer and find fresh relevance..
Blimey... if I had a pound for every time Pastor Martin Niemöller has appeared in a NewsBiscuit sub, I'd have a pound...
He did the verse:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
The sub is kind of illustrating that there is an insidious erosion of free speech going on in this country at the moment alongside the scatter gun effect of the Paedo hunt instigated by the (Probably true but as yet unproven) Savile revelations i.e DLT getting roped into the abuse enquiry and, at least from the context in which his arrest was reported, being cast in the same mould as Savile despite his infractions(if there were any) being quite radically different from Saviles purported activities. At the same time the handling of the senior tory/mistaken identity aspect has being such a cluster fuck that it's practically given any individual from that particular sector immunity from accusation. They're elements in my thinking but largely, where the free speech erosion is concerned:
There was a 19 year old arrested and held for posting a picture on facebook of a poppy being burnt on Remembrance Sunday. (Personally I think he's a twat and his ignorance and insensitivity shameful but that doesn't deny him the right to be an ignorant insensitive twat)
Today a guy won his court case against his employers after being demoted and getting a pay cut for posting a comment, on his private facebook page, about gay marriage in churches. Not a particularly inflammatory comment, just his perspective from how he interprets the Bible. He won, but the situation shouldn't have arisen in the first place. He expressed an opinion, not against an individual but against a social policy.
McAlpine is headlining today as taking action bringing an end to trial by twitter (baby out with the bathwater? People becoming scared to discuss controversial issues or suspicions without being given the go ahead from a high court judge for fear of legal action against them)
Without going into the rights or wrongs of individual viewpoints, or the extent to which I agree or disagree with them, I just feel that there's an uncomfortable level of thought policing evolving and it seems to be gaining momentum. Sure some of the people making wild accusations and insensitive comments on the internet might be cunts (pardon the vernacular)and I may want to throttle them, but take away their right to express an opinion and how long before someone is taking away your right, or mine, to express our opinion if it flies in the face of what the powers that be want us to think or say?
Not that I'm paranoid of course...
Cor whilst I was writing that last bit people said stuff and gave stars. cheers peeps.
And well said Nowherefast. If I can I'll make your points up to five for all them thoughts. Far as I'm concerned it's a massive interlocking story and we sort shouldn't tire of writing about it and voicing our thoughts.
Right now, I'm feeling kinda sorry for George Monbiot. Along with others he got too easily carried away by the sheer joy of unmasking - not just any old stray paedophile - but one who was close to Thatcher. There but for the grace of God etc. And yes - we really are such stuff as dreams are made.
But Monbiot's grovelled honestly and truly and well. So I I hope McAlpine lets him off and allows him keep the house(he's got young kids and aint wealthy).
But as for suing Sally Bercow ..
Oh yes.. *Rubs hands, salivates and dreams on*
Have to say I enjoy reading your stuff Nowhere
A cut above the usual rabble rousing
You put a bit of time and effort into your thinking.
That Facebook fiasco was beyond belief.
Huge relief he won that one.
Nothing wrong with being paranoid.
A musician eh....would you like to expand?
I was happy to recognise the verse. I just hadn't known who'd written it, before now. Didn't do too well in Eng Lit anyhow though if you've a question about glaciated valleys or the French Revolution please don't hesitate to call.
As for censorship vs freedom of speech. I'm probably more in favour than most on freedom of speech. The poppy burning thing can only be described as being the actions of an idiot jobsworth, who should also now get the sack.
Freedom of speech, though, shouldn't mean you can say what you like, when what you say accuses someone of something they're innocent of, or even of somehow supporting someone else's malicious slander or libel. I think yesterday and that daft post about McAlpine was a very good example of censorship by peer group, which is the best way of doing things.
I know from past experience the heavy hand of the NB admin gestapo so better read this quick before I'm disappeared again.
I read the comments and wanted to write a decent intelligent response but just in from the pub and trying to get coherent thoughts together and type them using a spinning keyboard is turning out to be a real bitch but yes, find myself agreeing with everything said (not just because of beer goggles). I'm genuinely grateful for the positive comments, interest and encouragement. Thank you
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