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1. 

   beau-jolly
   

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   My comment in the other room asking why no-one had made a joke about April Jones yet was in rather poor taste. Only defence is that I didn't actually make a joke.

   Now then:
   As someone said in the other place this is not likely to end well. I remember a senior copper mate saying that after 8 hours missing you are looking for a body. In this case the poor thing has celebral palsy too. They were looking for a light coloured van and found the owner of a blue Range Rover who you have to assume was "known to the police" but given that they have had this suspect from the beginning, how come they can't make him talk?
   He is either innocent but will now require 24/7 protection or guilty and refusing to co-operate. In the olden days they would have beaten it out of him and it may have ended happily.
   Any other views other than the obvious; Why the f*** was a 5 yo out at 7pm?

   Posted 8 months ago #
2. 

   Sinnick
   

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   I certainly didn't think you made a joke, and I'm pleased no-one has tried to get off on this very unpleasant subject. Not surprising that folk are a little jittery, though.

   I have to say that the story didn't look like it would have a happy ending, right from the word go. I just hope the search is successful, so the mother, family & community can get some sort of closure.

   As a primary school governor, I do worry about such things - my biggest concern is home internet usage by children - something we advise on but cannot control. Not relevant to this case, it seems.

   Posted 8 months ago #
3. 

   beau-jolly
   

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   I know you can't wrap your kids in cotton wool but according to the reports she was out playing on her bike 250 yards from home in some garages in the dark when she got into the car of someone known to the family.

   I can't help thinking that the family may be blaming themselves a bit. When my daughters were that age they were bathed and in bed by 7 so we could relax and unwind.

   Back to the old NB debate though: This one is likely to remain the other side of the line.

   Posted 8 months ago #
4. 

   Lucy4
   

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   This happened on a small estate in a small town where nothing like this has happened for at least 20 years, like thousands of others round the country. A five year old out at 7 is perhaps marginally too late but she was with friends. What haunts me is the feeling of absolute terror she must have felt when she realised she should not have got into whatever vehicle she got in to.
   However tragic this case is, though, there's also the numbers of kids who'll not have a decent childhood by not being allowed out to play, because the world's too dangerous nowadays. This sort of thing is extremely rare but it always has happened and always will.

   Posted 8 months ago #
5. 

   The All New Jeni B
   

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   I think I read somewhere that she was supposedly under the supervision of another parent, as hers were at Parents' Evening. We all have differing ideas of when young children should be in the house by, but perhaps she was only out later because this was a one-off, and that normally, she'd have been tucked up in bed by then.

   Whatever. At the end of the day, a 5yr old girl, with Cerebral Palsy has been abducted by someone she obviously knew and trusted. It could have happened at 7pm, 3pm or midnight, the time is largely immaterial.

   A friend who worked with SoCOs said to me that as soon as the volunteer searchers were told to stand down, the police search teams were looking at body recovery and did not want a) a Forensic Scene disturbed and b) someone who knew April discovering her.

   Although officers are no longer allowed to use force to garner information, I'd imagine that the man in custody has experienced the old 'rolled in a thin mattress and beaten with pipes' form of interrogation. Hurts like hell, but causes no visible bruising.

   Posted 8 months ago #
6. 

   The All New Jeni B
   

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   Allegedly.

   Posted 8 months ago #
7. 

   waylandsmithy
   

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   Every time this sort of thing happens, kids end up spending a lot more time indoors. Did anyone else spend large parts of their childhood knocking about in the woods, climbing trees, with a load of their mates? These days, letting your kids do that sort of thing has become 'neglect'.

   It's a sorry state of affairs. I wouldn't be the man I am today if I hadn't have fallen out of an oak tree when I was 4 and lain undiscovered for several hours.

   Posted 8 months ago #
8. 

   The All New Jeni B
   

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   We've got a wood in our garden (this is not nearly as grand as it sounds) and when the YM has mates around, I leave them to do what they want in there. I stick my head out to check on them every so often, but a bunch of 12/13 yr olds don't really want a mum sitting out there watching them. One of his friend's mum was horrified that I let them climb trees and swing from ropes. Her son is no longer allowed to come here.

   I used to go off with my mates from 8am until 6pm-ish every day of the summer hols, we didn't check in with any parents, couldn't have called home unless we found a phonebox and had remembered to bring a 5p, and basically ran about getting lots of fresh air, exercise and having fun. We were all well aware of 'stranger danger' and the risk of perverts but because we were allowed out on our own, were savvy enough to avoid abduction.

   I fear it can only get worse...

   Posted 8 months ago #
9. 

   Lucy4
   

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   Fell out of an oak tree did you Mr Waylandiismithy? You posh git. We had to make do with falling off slag heaps and falling down dis-used mine shafts in my day. You were lucky, we could only dream about falling out of trees.

   Posted 8 months ago #
10. 

    dvo4fun
    

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    There can be a certain rose-tinted aspect to childhood freedom reminiscence - my father buying me & me big bruvver 'proper' bows with steel-tipped arrows. Then letting us out and about with them when we were primary school age. Aaaghhhh.
    On the other hand - cycling miles to hone off-road skills at disused gravel pits, rope swings over the river ... jumpers for goalposts etc

    @b-j I think you're right about 24/7 protection if bailed/not charged.

    @Jeni "I fear it can only get worse... " Indeed

    I do find the wall-to-wall TV news coverage a bit 'tacky' when there is not actually any 'news' to report. Annoying enuff if it's just about some footballer's big transfer fee/ mouth/ car/ sexual appetite but with this one it feels a tad voyeuristic. There's always the off switch I suppose.

    Picture of the child a little too much like my grandaughter

    Posted 8 months ago #
11. 

    The All New Jeni B
    

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    dvo, I agree about the coverage, but with modern transport etc being what it is, I suspect that the broader the coverage area, the greater the chance of locating a child that has been moved.

    Having said I agree, I must admit to regularly checking up on the BBC's site, but think that's more to do with being a parent and desperately hoping for some good news.

    Posted 8 months ago #
12. 

    waylandsmithy
    

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    Lucy4,

    It was in Royal Berkshire. They didn't have common trees like Poplars or Planes to fall out of around there. An Ash nearly got in once, but I think they chopped it down.

    Posted 8 months ago #
13. 

    Perks
    

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    The coverage is annoying Sky News is the worst offender. Before every ad break it's 'after the break we will bring you the very latest on...' with the very latest being the same info as before the break.

    The other things I notice happens when you have cases like this is the looks I get walking down the road holding the hand of my 3 year old girl. People stare suspiciously. Good forbid she plays up and starts crying, as I put her in the car. You can tell their thoughts, in order, are 'he must be a pedeophile... or maybe her father'

    Posted 8 months ago #
14. 

    Lucy4
    

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    Mr Smithy, I did trip over a Christmas tree once but it was plastic and I was pissed.

    Posted 8 months ago #
15. 

    waylandsmithy
    

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    It's such a horrific story, it could end up engraved on the conscious as much as 'Sweet Fanny Adams' was in Victorian times. The trouble is, people seem to become less shockable as more of these stories break.

    Still feel incredibly sad when I think of the McCann's and the way the press treated them. The pictures of Madeleine at the time were so similar to my eldest daughter, she used to ask why her photo was on the telly.

    Posted 8 months ago #
16. 

    Carter
    

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    I never knew that Sweet Fanny Adams was a real person. Just googled it and am now full of knowledge and rather depressed.

    Posted 8 months ago #
17. 

    button
    

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    Blaming the parents is absolutely ridiculous. As Jeni said it could have happened at any time.

    Following on from Perks I once got stopped in Tesco car park as I was putting my daughter in the car. She was 2 at the time and crying as I carried her out, security had followed me along with a elderly lady who had spotted me 'stealing her' and asked me "Is this your son?" to which I replied somewhat shocked "No, its my daughter" they looked embarrassed and muttered something about her crying and that they were just checking and off we went.

    Posted 8 months ago #
18. 

    button
    

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    I was watching Sky news coverage on Tuesday evening and the reporter at the scene noticed a policeman moving a road closed sign.

    Reporter "Are you opening the road?"

    Policeman on camera "No, there is an articulated lorry which needs to turn around"

    Reporter "The police are not closing the road, but there is a lorry which needs to turn around"

    1. That's not news, its not even travel news.
    2. WE JUST HEARD THE POLICEMAN SAY THAT!

    Posted 8 months ago #
19. 

    waylandsmithy
    

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    I used to work with a guy who has 2 teenage sons. When they wanted to play him up in the supermarket, they used to say 'get off me, you paedo' as loud as they could. He's a very funny guy and a top bloke, so I guess it's karma. Apparently they stopped doing it after he replied equally loudly 'no-one wants to fuck you, you pair of ugly cunts'.

    I think the 'humour' in the north is a touch more brusque.

    Posted 8 months ago #
20. 

    beau-jolly
    

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    Well there you go! They have arrested the bloke for suspected murder now. I know they pull kids out of earthquakes after 7 days but this was never going to end well.
    As for blaming the parents; We all remember running around unsupervised when we were kids but surely not as young as 5?
    When I was young there were only 1/2 as many people in the world (scary but true) and paeodophiles had not been invented (they were called Sir or Rev.) There were also considerably fewer cars around. I used to roam the woods and fields in about a 5 mile radius of home. I had a bow and arrow and later an air rifle. But I was much older, at least 8 or 9 not 5!

    Posted 8 months ago #
21. 

    Ironduke
    

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    I went round a museum in Wales where they recreated a country house, and had boots out for polishing stood on century old local newspaper. One of the articles explained in one small article how some man had been arrested after a girls body had been found 'outraged' etc.
    Struck me then...maybe this sort of thing has always happened, but now our media brings it home to us..bit like previously war casualties were reported in their hundreds or thousands as a by-line; now each one is a news item, and entire wars are fought with casualty lists equating to a good day on the Somme or one ship sunk.

    Posted 8 months ago #
22. 

    beau-jolly
    

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    @Wayland. I know what you mean. My youngest looked just like Maddy McCann when she was that age. We had also stayed in exactly the same resort when she was that age. The big difference is that she was either with us or with a supervised kids' club at all times and not left in her room alone while we got pissed somewhere else.

    Posted 8 months ago #
23. 

    cinquecento
    

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    given the arrest today on suspicion of murder, this is a tragic case and is never going to be an acceptable topic for humour. Maddy McCann is also still firmly on the unacceptable side for me.

    re the increasing cotton-woolling of kids though - as a child I had some hand-me down old book probably from the fifties called Bevis, Story of a Boy. That had the young hero doing various outdoorsy things but included going through the detailed steps of making a home made rifle and the gunpowder to fire it with!

    Posted 8 months ago #
24. 

    dvo4fun
    

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    @cc "That had the young hero doing various outdoorsy things but included going through the detailed steps of making a home made rifle and the gunpowder to fire it with!"

    Didn't everybody have an older brother who did that? Length of metal tube stopped at one end near the drilled firing hole, appropriate ball-bearing (not sure if he made his own gunpowder or cut down some fireworks), ram it all down, apply lit match to firing hole. Singed eyebrows and ringing ears.

    He discovered a (5 chamber [unusual?]) revolver with nearby shells in father's bedroom -was probably looking for a porn mag. After loading it up in the garden brother acted out the part of Hitler shooting himself in the head(fortunately without pulling the trigger), then turned the weapon on the ride-in metal pedal car and to everybody's great surprise shot a hole right through it. Happy days!

    Posted 8 months ago #
25. 

    beau-jolly
    

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    Teenager dies after inhaling laughing gas. Fair game?

    Posted 8 months ago #
26. 

    Perks
    

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    A quick question for the legal eagles on here.

    The police have to charge or release him by 530. Because he has been arrested and no doubt question on a different suspection, does that automatically give them more time, 24 hours from arrest for Murder.

    Could it be a way of extending detention without having to apply. Probably not allowed but it was a thought I had

    Posted 8 months ago #
27. 

    vertical
    

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    @button

    With the currently raging insensitivity accusations against Kay Burley this story's now developing into a justifiable attack on crap quality of murdoch style news reporting

    Posted 8 months ago #
28. 

    beau-jolly
    

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    @Perks
    I had a similar thought. They have to release him by 5:30 or apply for an extra 24 hours. Previously they had to charge him or release him. So they charged him this am.
    They must be desperate to find the body or the murder charge will tricky to make stick! The only way they could be pretty sure she was dead was if he had confessed.
    I think there will be a lot more nasty stuff to come out of this yet.

    Posted 8 months ago #
29. 

    Sinnick
    

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    Have spoken to a couple of friends in the prison service. It's either a 1-off by this guy or quite possibly part of something much more complex & unpleasant, and she might still be alive. I won't detail what was said to me, but there are more of this type around (and a lot in jail) than we'd like to think. Pervs like this never get over it, and the only proper justice is what gets done to them in prison. This is paraphrased from people that have met dozens or hundreds of paedos.

    Posted 8 months ago #
30. 

    Vertically Challenged Giant
    

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    Crimes against children are always upsetting, and I'm in no way saying this should be joked about. Just wanted to clear that up before I act like a bit of a cock.

    But, I wouldn't have thought that the alleged abuse of a number of alleged young girls by an alleged celebrity who was allegedly in a position of alleged trust/power and able to allegedly abuse that trust/power and, subsequently, abuse several alleged young girls, should really be an alleged laughing matter either.

    That doesn't seem to have stopped everybody having a go at making it a laughing matter over the last few days though.

    Or the systematic abuse over a number of years of young boys and subsequent cover up of that abuse by priests either. But people make that a laughing matter.

    Is there an age that children reach where there is a cut-off point and suddenly it's fair game to joke about it?

    Posted 8 months ago #

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