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waylandsmithy
offlineMember
Just seen his full quote on Have I Got News For You. He made a flippant remark supporting the strike because the roads were empty. Then 'in the interest of balance on the BBC' made a flippant remark against strikers.
Not his best gag, but pretty funny as car journalists go. I really want the millionaire union leaders to pursue this in the courts: they will lose miserably. FFS, talk about a mountain made out of a molehill.
Clarkson is a clown. I mean that in a positive way.
ianslat
offlineMember
If you invite him onto shows and ask him his opinion, what do you expect him to say?
What pisses me off is the argument I've heard a couple of times from MPs that 'if I said that there'd be calls for me to resign'. Yeah, you're an MP - he dicks about in cars with his mates. There is a bit of a difference.
Some union chap said this morning that his comments should be considered in the context of some union officials in South America being murdered last year. No. They really shouldn't.
The All New Jeni B
offlineMember
I haven't seen his comments, but I have seen the massive over-reaction to them.
Clarkson is as Clarkson does. He's not Stephen Hawking, the Dalai Lama or a member of the Diplomatic Corps, he's Jeremy Clarkson.
Love him, loathe him, or be ambivalent, but realise that he has made a career out of being an over-grown naughty little boy playing with his toys, making inappropriate or offensive comments and then being made to stand in the naughty corner.
Did all those who made complaints actually watch the show, or are they vicariously outraged because they think they should be?
Remember that this is a country in which we do still have the right to freedom of expression, which includes speech, and until such time as we lose that right, people are entitled to their own opinions, including Jeremy Clarkson.
Runestone Cowboy
offlineMember
I am interested in cars, and find Clarkson enter[list]taining. That doesn't mean I take him seriously. Glad it's not just me! I have lots of sympathy for teachers, nurses etc., but the idea that its 'them against the banks' is a nonsense. It's the rest of us that are caught in the middle: self-employed workers, shop staff etc.
We're all Going to be a little bit skinter this Christmas. I for one look forward to the Top Gear special as a highlight of my unpaid holiday (and spending time with the kids, obviously). Once again, the press and three unions reduce their arguments to soundbites. Bit ranty, I admit.
Runestone Cowboy
offlineMember
His DVDs suck donkey balls. He should apologise for them.
Quaz
offlineMember
I think you all covered it. Ross /Brand gate differed in that it was 2 blokes repeatedly hassling an old man about his grandaughter, this was much more of a throw away comment. Agree with or not, if clarkson goes to the wall for making that gag (not his best) then we might as well shut down NB right now. The union will look pretty foolish if they persue this further and will not help their cause.
I saw it on the news this morning and the guy who ianslat mentions above was just making himself look like a complete and utter twat. He mentioned the fact that Clarkson is a millionaire and the presenter's response was something along the lines of 'what's that got to do with anything you irritating little fuckwit?'
John Ffitch-Rucker
offlineMember
As I wrote yesterday: "Clarkson is a harmless buffoon. Many things are put on TV that many people will find offensive; he’s just another. He gets paid to do this stuff, because it generates media coverage for lack-lustre programmes like the One Show. Also, the BBC agreed to the joke in advance, so they’re just as culpable of the offence. The whole thing is another storm in a media tea-cup. I suspect that there a few BBC executives quietly congratulating themselves this morning on a job well-done”.
On the Now Show last night, a joke about Clarkson being murdered got a rousing cheer from the audience. Anyone for a lynching?
bonjonelson
offlineMember
Maybe I'm alone in thinking he DID go too far. Yes, I'm not a particular fan of the guy so this may be colouring my judgement. The line saying they should all be shot was something not to be taken seriously, but the follow-up saying they should be executed in front of their families - that I thought was taking it a bit too far.
Not enough for me to phone up and complain, but I think he did deserve to make an apology.
riesler
offlineMember
What is with the double standards these days?
I suppose he could join the apology queue behind those who say publicly that they can't wait for Mrs T to die and would piss on her grave, those who beheaded effigies on Cameron and co, Ken Livingston for saying Osborne should be hung and many, many others who are not castigated because they chose the 'right target'.
Either that or rightfully ignore everyone and bank the royalties on the Christmas DVDs. As mentioned earlier, 'the BBC agreed to the joke in advance' and this is Jeremy Clarkson we're talking about, not Mother Theresa.
Jeez, I despair sometimes, is there nothing more important to get worked up about.
Rant over; feel better now.
dvo4fun
offlineMember
Well, it was a 'light news' week. Only collapse of EU, western capitalism on the skids and .. oh, hang on ....
Something of a light relief in retrospect. Hopefully one of the big unions will bring civil court proceedings against him, win on a technicality, be awarded £1 in punitive damages and have to pay their own costs. Unless its my union of course - entirely different.
Ironduke
offlineMember
If it had been a stand-up comedian (or even Frankie Boyle) that said it, then it wouldn't even have had a mention.
I find the reaction to this strike very interesting. Default position voiced about strikes is mild to moderate support of the workers. The zeitgeist seems the reverse on this occasion, and characterised by Ed Miliband not supporting them..and he will be riding the opinion wave.
As t the costs to the nation- well, they don;t get paid for a day, most work (other than perhaps a backlog of operations) still gets done, no overtime is paid to catch up, and the only loss is to the working time of parents who took time off to look after their kids, and in most cases they will catch up their output by working harder in the rest of the days of the week...and in our house, Mum took the kids through various reading/writing stuff, so they probably haven't missed out either.
Beware striking and showing that, actually, we can get by without you...!
beau-jolly
offlineMember
I haven't really been keeping up with the news recently. Are they striking because we can not affort to pay them a pension of twice as much as they earned during their working life? If so Clarkson is correct. The only way to make the sums add up is to cull more than 50% of private sector workers. Its simple maths.
Here's an example: My mate was a copper. He worked from 20 to 50. His average pay would have been about £20k over the years. He finished as ACC so his pension is £45k plus a big wedge. He went on to work as a director of the ambulance service and is about to be made redundant with another big pay-off and another pension. But don't feel sorry for him. He's just got a new job as a hospital manager. Luckily he gets enough holiday to get away to the villa in Cannes every year. He did have 6 months in the private sector inbetween. The stress gave him a heart attack.
Public sector workers? I say fuck 'em!
dvo4fun
offlineMember
i) So, that £500M cost of the one-dayer that Gov't ministers were quoting beforehand wasn't true?? You'll be telling me next that they make up their expenses claims or that Michael Gove has actually had one proper job in the whole of his miserable life!
ii) School teachers are a kind of state-provided child-minding service for people who want kids but simply can't be arsed to look after them then (well, not if they want to run two cars and have the annual holiday obviously)?
%*ck me - I always sort of assumed they were there to educate the nations sproggs and that it was the parents' responsibility to get them cared for. Doh. How stoopid am I??
iii) err.......... that's it really
edit: Not long ago now mrs 4fun and I entertained a couple of couples for a bit of evening nosh and discovered to our amusement that both of the male guests had put themselves forward as prospective Tory MP candidates. For the same constituency. Hurrah. Don't agree with their political views but pleased to say all parties remain on pretty good terms. Thought I'd get this in now in case this thread develops along a more personal vein.........
The All New Jeni B
offlineMember
I had a very heated discussion with someone who was until that point a friend, who was bitterly complaining that the strike was costing her a days holiday as she had to use her annual leave to care for her 4 children.
When I pointed out that the school was not a child-minding service, she became incensed at the suggestion that she or her husband should be in any way inconvenienced by her own children. Frothing at the mouth about the inconsideration, she then had a go at me for supporting the strikers despite having a child at an Independent School.
I gently pointed out that as Mr B pays a hefty chunk in taxes and again in Council Tax, that by NOT utilising our allotted space at the local State school, we were adding to the coffers available to the children who do attend them.
As I said, she was a friend until then...
John Ffitch-Rucker
offlineMember
I left the public sector (NHS) in the late 80’s; couldn’t stand the politics, and above all else the fact that incompetent, even dangerous individuals were guaranteed a job for life. I was shocked to find that many private sector employers won’t even look at a public sector employee, because they had (and still have) a reputation for being lazy, quarrelsome and incompetent. Luckily for me, I had a skill-set that was in demand, and still is. However, I have also to accept that I will have to work until I drop, for private-sector pensions are worthless (thanks, Gordon) and by the time I get there, the state pension will also be worthless, if it still exists at all. So, am I sympathetic to the strikers? Yes, but with reservations, for the public sector workers were mainly notable for their silence and indifference when the private sector was shedding hundreds of thousands of jobs from 2008-2010.
Ironduke
offlineMember
I believe the £500miliion figure was arrived at by taking total annual GDP, dividing it by number of working days to get a figure per workign day, then dividing that by proportion of parents with children in the workforce. Farcical figure.
I also saw it calculated that we would be better off as we saved wages for 1-2million people roughly equalling £200million, but that any work not done in the private sector would be pretty much caught up or time off avoided /a day holiday taken that would have been taken elsewhere otherwise- and there is no immediate financial impact of loss of education.
Statistics, huh?
Al OPecia
offlineMember
I think Clarkson knew exactly what he was doing when he opened his gob, and got precisely the reaction he was after. Either - he did it in jest which suggests that he didn't believe it, and should be ignored, or, he does believe it and doesn't care. On balance I think the evidence (over the years)points to the latter interpretation - I can't imagine he wants to be ignored - therefore he deserves all of the approbrium heaped upon him.
He is paid huge sums of public money for twatting about like an overgrown teenager, so don't feel too sorry for him whilst he's away in China.
What we really need is a technocrat in charge. Of everything.
beau-jolly
offlineMember
JFR: "lazy, quarrelsome and incompetent." I would add cosetted and reiterate, Fuck 'em!
thisisall1word
offlineMember
Clarkson may have slightly over egged the case against the Public Sector workers by joking about killing people in front of their families but a surprising amount of people in this country think because his blokey attitude to life is spot on the money.
He's paid by TV and newspapers to express far right views under the guise of someone who's only slightly far right wing - which isn't a problem if you believe that people are not influenced by what they read or watch. Jimmy Carr & Frankie Boyle may be unlikeable knobs from time to time but their get out a jail card is that their audience appreciates that they do not believe what they say; Jimmy Carr doesn't hate women; Boyle doesn't hate (actually not sure about him - maybe he does hate everything and everyone). But I can't help but think that Clarkson's audience are not meant to think "ah, in reality he think the opposite, it's just all ironic" but "yeah, you tell em Clarkson, bit harsh there but we know what you mean and we're with you". etc etc...
I should declare a registered interest as a lazy Public sector worker, but I should add that I think it's insane that anyone gets a final salary pension and if it's impossible to take them away from people then we should make anyone in a final salary pension pay a lot more into it and reduce the amount that the taxpayer/employer puts in.
Figures suggest that public sector pensions have been well managed, were not invested into the double your money Iceland Bank (unless you work for Barnet council...) and there's actually enough money to cover pension provision - but I still think that's no excuse for making people pay a bit more in...
Oh and we should try and get out of any mind set that pits private sector against public sector but there's less harm in pitting people who have little against people who have too much...
meh
Runestone Cowboy
offlineMember
Jimmy Carr does hate women. He runs them down in dark country lanes and feasts on their shattered remains.
I earn considerably less than union leaders, which is why I hate it when they presume to speak on my behalf (e.g. 'the public support us'). I am in favour of unions in principle. I am diametrically opposed to them in their current form.
I can see why some people see Clarkson as a bully. But he's less of a bully than the disingenuous, self-serving, greedy, objectionable oafs that speak on behalf of the unions on Radio 4 in the morning.
Runestone Cowboy
offlineMember
I hear you Al. Lots of public workers do a sterling job, and no-one likes the thought of working longer for less. Public or private sector. Although I still maintain that my high school history teacher was a useless slag.
John Ffitch-Rucker
offlineMember
Al, you need to read a little more carefully; I said "many private sector employers won’t even look at a public sector employee, because they had (and still have) a reputation for being lazy, quarrelsome and incompetent”, that is, amongst employers. If you’re assuming that I share that view, you are mistaken. As I also said, I worked in the public sector, and knew many talented and hardworking people there. But there were, and I suspect are, many who do not fit that description.
ronseal
offlineMember
We need to be more scientific in this debate
Who are the good public servants: Doctors (proper ones mind, not people with degrees in software engineering*) Nurses, teachers,
[BIN MEN are usually private contractors now)
And who are the baddies; Wheel clamping and car removal scamsters, traffic enforcers, CCTV perverts, health and safety officials, bogus climate change conference visitors and money wasters... Bribe taking contract managers, do nothing diversity officers.... Quango-crats....
Anyone who says "I don't make the rules, I just have to enforce them,"
As a rule of thumb, if they work week ends, and shifts, they're public servants. If they work from 10am to 4pm, they're not.
* Only Al O'P will understand that
Al OPecia
offlineMember
"Wheel clamping and car removal scamsters, traffic enforcers, CCTV perverts" are also usually private contractors now.
Health and safety officials...all of them, really? What do you suggest untramelled business "leaders" making the decisions - Bhopal ring any bells?
"Bogus climate change conference visitors" - what they aren't really interested in climate change?
Money wasters? Err, moving on....
I have more problems with diversity officers who do something.
Quango-crats, well they are all sacked now, so no need to worry about them...
I didn't know that you had a degree in software engineering, Ron.
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