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rikkor
offlineMember
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/19/nhs-hospital-waiting-times-longer
18 weeks? OMG! No one in the US waits more than 18 minutes to have the slightest boo-boo fixed. And don't start that "but 30 million people in the US don't even have any insurance" crap. Anyone here who doesn't have insurance, down to the last illegal immigrant, goes right to the emergency room at a hospital and can never be turned away (by law).
ronseal
offlineMember
Yes, I saw that on The Wire.
Gang members were always admitted to the local hospital. If it happened on The Wire, it must be true.
In Britain, on Question Time on telly, a politician only has to say that "Britain has a health service that's the envy of the world' and they're guaranteed a two minute round of applause.
It's a mass delusion.
The NHS has wasted billions of pounds on IT projects that failed. But if anyone dares to suggest that they don't give billions of pounds to dodgy IT salesmen, then they're automatically cast as a right wing thug who wants to take us back to the feudal system.
rikkor
offlineMember
Don't want to be (more of) an ass, but your delusion is similar to that of Canada. They blather on about how great their socialized medicine is, then quietly pay to come to the US if anything is reallly wrong. You can imagine how wrenching it is for a Canadian to part with any money!
So, this mass delusional healthcare 1950's-era party line is causing us to jump off the same cliff in the US (mixed metaphors, anyone?) I just thank God that we have a federal system here. Any and every state has a chance to derail this BS before we become as bad as every place in Europe.
Anyone who defends the NHS to me can only do so if he/she is willing to admit that those who can afford better in the UK pay for it out of pocket either in Europe or here.
bonjonelson
offlineMember
Rikkor is getting mixed up with emergency treatment (which is done immediately, without question, here as in the US) and non-urgent treatment, things like a hip replacement, which goes on a waiting list, the whole point of which is meant to be that the most needing of treatment get treated first.
Like all systems it's not perfect, and the NHS has wasted a lot of money on IT for sure. But that doesn't mean the concept is bad.
A friend of mine in the US has now been told by his doctor that he's likely to have a permanent (but minor) disability with his foot, which will affect him more as he grows older, simply because he could not afford to have the relatively minor operation needed to fix it.
rikkor
offlineMember
Trust me Bonjo, even illegal immigrants in the US get their hips replaced in record time. Just take a deep breath and say "This system does not work, this system does not work. (NHS)" Move past denial to acceptance.
Your friend's "story" is absolute BS, or he is so past it that any doctor would say the same thing to placate the person. I repeat: no one in the US goes without treatment or surgery, no matter what his ability to pay.
As proof, there is no such thing here as an article in the paper stating that any person waited 18 weeks for anything. Much less, having that Bulgarian-style standard as a goal to be strived for. Too, too funny and sad.
And, once again, please tell me that it's my fantasy that those who can afford it come to the US to get healthcare that they cannot get in their Socialist paradises.
bonjonelson
offlineMember
Oh Rikkor, you're confused about what I was saying. I wasn't expecting you to believe what happened to my friend - this is the internet, you have an opinion and you're expressing it here. I'm not trying to get you to change your opinion because you won't, regardless of what anyone else is going to say.
You're more than welcome to believe what you want about the NHS (which you don't use) and the American system. You're even entitled to vote in the US (I assume) so you can make your opinions matter in the most important way.
But sadly, the story about my friend (who is in his 30s and has just had his first child within the last couple of months) is absolutely true.
You have to make your opinion based on the evidence that is available to you, I have to make mine based on the evidence that is available to me.
ps. have a great last day tomorrow!
I think the NHS is like the right to bear arms in the US.
Although there are plenty of us who moan about it, the principle is considered a sacred part of the national fabric by enough people to make it politically very difficult to get rid of, and from a distance it can be hard to understand the emotional attachment.
be reasonable
offlineMember
My father-in-law's present wife is Russian, and a neurologist; she goes home to Russia for treatment for even minor conditions, because the health care there is superior to the NHS. Just an observation.
Bonjo, it's not just the IT that has been expensive folly in the NHS; for years (under Blair/Brown), the NHS budget for 'management consultants' was over £3,000,000,000.00 per annum.
ronseal
offlineMember
To be fair, you can get operations done privately in the UK.
America isn't the only country in the world to have moved into the 21st century.
We've got all the modern amenities. In fashionable London, nobody would be seen dead riding in a horse driven coach. Those things go way too fast*.
(*That's actually true. The average driving speed in London is slower than it was in the days of the coach and horse)
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