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In defense of Starmer, RLB did sign up to a set of declarations that she seemed to fall short of.
Whether she should have signed up to a list that gave very little wriggle room in terms of criticising the State of Israel, is perhaps another issue?
I assume this means her political career is dead for the foreseeable future - you don't often come back from being labelled a racist by your Leader.
I don't really understand it to be honest. If it's true that the Baltimore police trained with Israeli special forces, why is saying that anti-semitic?
I don't really like RLB ever since seeing her on one of the pre election debate programmes, but I sympathise with her here.
The argument for her being A/S is that the article assumed US police learned the neck grip from the Israeli Forces - thereby assuming Israel's guilt. By extension it could be seen to tie Israel in with the BLM protests. That kind of conflation fits the BoD's A/S definition.
BUT
The other side of the argument, is that there is a large amount of evidence of training collaboration between US & Israeli forces. Both groups have a well-documented use of excessive force, which breaks international human rights laws. They both use that neck grip. It's not unreasonable to assume techniques are shared (but it is wrong to assume who learnt what from whom).
At worst, she broke the A/S guidelines she signed up to.
At best, she (& Maxine Peake + Independent) are guilty of leaping to conclusions, they could not verify.
Deadwood
Baggage
Regardless of rights&wrongs....let's face it she is not going to win Labour many friends
If Labour are to be serious contenders in the future - whether they like it or not - they need to learn from Blair not Corbyn
This is nu-politics....right and wrong no longer matters.
There is no moral high ground any more....it has been bulldozed and sold off to the highest favoured bidder
Principles are SO 20th century
The argument for her being A/S is that the article assumed US police learned the neck grip from the Israeli Forces - thereby assuming Israel's guilt. By extension it could be seen to tie Israel in with the BLM protests. That kind of conflation fits the BoD's A/S definition.
Fucking hell, that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I might be being naive, but that feels to me like the Kevin Bacon game. You're never more than 6 degrees of separation away from linking something to Israel, and thereby declaring it anti semitic.
I wonder if everyone is in the wrong here.
Not sure in my years of doing various martial arts I've ever come across a teacher, usually police/military/private security, that amongst the stuff they're meant to teach, hasn't also showed me the cool, ruthless stuff - even in judo - which apparently means 'the gentle way'). Only one of these guys was a Krav Maga guy. Pretty sure US cops are able to come up with a whole range of choke holds on their own.
True or false, it's irrelevant who taught them; the blame lies entirely with who authorised the use and who used it disproportionately, so the conflation is unnecessary...you'll have to draw your own conclusions as to why this conflation was included.
A normal reader might overlook any anti-semitism in the article, because to them it could just evoke the idea that cops were trained in effective unarmed-combat techniques by elite forces.
But RLB is not a normal reader - she's a prime-ministerial contender whose party (especially the wing she belongs to) is mired in acts and allegations of anti-semitism and who has had training etc in avoiding anti-semitism and the perception of anti-semitism. Fairly or unfairly, she is always one degree away from being accused of anti-semitism. I read she also was given the opportunity to retract her endorsement of the article and didn't...
So albeit the right thing to do might be shove her through an internal process and let her explain herself, Keir's over a bit of a barrel and needs to avoid the dithering charge laid at his predecessor's door, both generally and in terms of anti-semitism, and has chosen that's more important than trying to stay cosy with her supporters on the Labour Left. It's also a good move to show his leadership qualities in juxtaposition to how insecure and high-handed Johnson looks with his bizarre support of Cummings, Jenrick and Braverman.
I think that there is an element of ‘pour encourager les autres’, here, however:
RLB - tweeted a "clarification" in which she said she had shared the article because of the actress's "significant achievements" and her support for Labour.
She added: "It wasn't intended to be an endorsement of all aspects of the article.
This is dissembling - she either didn't read that bit, or she did and was happy with it. If she did read it given her position in the Shadow Cabinet and the furore over Corbyn's limp response to anti-Semitism she should have thought "oh-oh no go alert". I am willing to accept that she hadn't read the bloody thing, but either way people in her position should - and be aware fo the public megaphone permanently strapped to their faces with no "off" button.
Maxine Peake: In a tweet, Ms Peake responded by saying: "I feel it’s important for me to clarify that, when talking to The Independent, I was inaccurate in my assumption of American Police training & its sources."
SO - RLB has promulgated fake news about a subject of great sensitivity for Labour, and more generally in the BLM context.
I think Starmer was correct to do this - not doing anything would have looked as limp as Corbyn, and Labour would carry baggage which could be exploited for the foreseeable future.
As to the uproar and cries of factionalism, from what I have seen of the hard left in Labour is that they are happy to compromise provided that you agree with them completely. I say that with great sadness.
Agree with almost all of the previous, esp Ben & Al
After his election, Starmer provided an intelligent compromise by giving RLB a position of authority. She knew he had to fix A/S, but promoted a false story linking Israeli forces with BLM. Could easily have been withdrawn with an apology, but she refused
What was Starmer supposed to do?
- give in to her when she'd been given an instruction?
- allow the perception (and actuality?) of A/S to persist?
- let Left-wingers do what they want?
- be no better than Corbyn?
- be no better than Boris?
So, because of her stupidity & lack of political astuteness, she gave him the answer on a plate. He kills several birds with a single stone. It was a watershed moment that I suspect he'd been waiting for
It'll be interesting to see what RLB's fans (McDonnell, Burgon, etc) do next
And Peake is a fantastic actor, I saw her perform as Hamlet. Brilliant. So why was she promoting her extreme (but well intended) political views ? She apologised quickly, but if she's to be a political influence, she should get her facts right before speaking, not after
The contrast between Starmer swiftly taking action against a prominent member of his shadow cabinet, and Boris stubbornly standing by his allies, no matter how guilty they appear to be, was quite striking wasn't it?
I quite like this Keir bloke.
Keir Starmer needs a bolt of electricity to fully animate him, imho. He's like a cyborg politician from the future, completely lifeless. I do like the way he uses facts as weapons, though - we need a ton more of that. Just a shame he isn't more of a streetfighter.
On the alleged antisemitism, it seemed a pretty thin example to me. Looked as if KS just wanted to sack somebody - to set a tone - and she was the first candidate.
@deceangli - I think Starmer deploys the rapier more than the swung cudgel, and as you point out that's what is needed - but he does need to Zorro-up a bit.
However (and ninthly) it may be that a significant proportion of the "good old Boris" faction of the UK public may be waking up to Johnson's busking approach to all policy matters, and his predilection for distraction tactics - "Look! Over there! A twat on a zipwire!!!".
Very interesting discussion. Yes RLB is a known sufferer from foot-in-mouth disease ('Jeremy? 10/10 of course!'), and this retweet was silly. But the sacking looked to me like Starmer seizing his first opportunity to rid his shadow cabinet of a rival, and the most prominent leftie. Also looked like a foolish move if it distracts from the Jenrick corruption story.
But I guess it's also a demonstration of authority and straight talking intended to be compared with Boris' behaviour. More positive.
Having read the Peake interview, I also wonder if it's her criticism of Starmer in it that riled him the most when RLB retweeted it... There's certainly more on that topic than there is on Israel (which is just a passing comment)!
I think that this is going to be good for Labour, if handled properly. It needs to get this issue resolved long before the next election, so it may be Starmer's team were waiting for an opportunity - and this fell into their lap.
I see that there is a frenzy of "but X said this about Y, who is a known anti-Semite and they got promoted" etc, etc. It the same kind of futile, reductionist argument that you see in climate change denial. Flush them out now and deal with it, providing some clarity over what the principles are, and where the red lines are.
Starmer was right to sack Long-Bailey for sharing the Maxine Peake article.
It’s going to be interesting to see how he handles this inside the Party. Some Labour MP’s have already asked for her to be reinstated, while others have sought reassurances that MP’s who criticise the Israeli government will not be suspended
They miss the point. Peake does not criticise the Israeli government. She states that Israeli secret services taught a restraint technique to US law enforcement that was used in the death of George Floyd. This joins a long line of well-trodden, paranoid anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. From benefitting out of the Wall St crash, to having advance warning of the 9/11 attacks, they are now in some way responsible for the death of a black man at the hands of brutal police officers. The allegation is antisemitic.
Peake has now admitted that her comment was ‘inaccurate’, which I’m guessing is a theatrical term for, “made-up."
In his aim to eradicate antisemitism from labour, this is a good start by Starmer, but there’s a long road ahead.
@ oshaughnessy - agreed. Passing off fake news as fact in support of an argument is a no no for a prominent Member for Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. They have to be better than the Tories - who was really surprised that Jenrick in effect gave Desmond a political blow-job? Not me.
but X said this about Y, who is a known anti-Semite and they got promoted"
I think this is relevant actually - at least if it concerns anti Semitism and ministerial level. The weakness in KS action is that he's sacked someone he likely wanted to sack. Not so much "follow the rules, firm but fair" as "you've got to be in my gang or you're out". If he sacked an actual ally, that would be impressive.
Although Starmer didn't seem that bothered when members of his front bench endorsed Nancy Astor.
One of the big criticisms of him from his days at the CPS, is that he was rather selective in the criminals he chose to target and had some glaring blind spots.
That said, RLB is definitely a victim of her own choices.
Just picking up on a tangential point made by Al & dec (you could be famous with a pairing like that)
I don't mind a cyborg; I don't want Starmer to have a bolt of electricity or a rapier; I don't need a "personality" in charge - I just want someone with confidence & ability to do the job, The "personality" is what inevitably gets them at the end of their political career, rather than their achievement record (or lack of)
In so many cases, their personality is all they've got: Boris, Corbyn, JRM, Trump, Berlusconi, Sarkozy, etc
There are hundreds of ways in which the government of Israel can be criticised without invoking anti-Semitism. You could even call for the investigation of the training which occurred. It happens every day. You just have to have a modicum of intelligence and ability to research what you hear from reliable sources outside your own political bubble (Peake appears to have received her information from a Morning Star article, which itself cites the opinion of a Palestinian activist as 'evidence').
People have campaigned against their police collaborating with Israeli police. You could easily express its inappropriate on account of perceived human rights abuses. Many other nations, most notably in the middle east, object, cry foul and invoke racism when faced with criticism of human rights abuses.
But unfortunately the psychology of the far left is fundamentally conspiracy-based. There's just something more seductive at the idea there are a small cabal of villains within our grasp to get rid of, and not that the world contains moral complexity and problems deeply embedded in cultures. The left propagate conspiracy theories because they believe them.
Both extremes are purist, denying alternatives or compromise
A long way back in the non-binary real world, things are far more complex, and solutions need to be more pragmatic
Moderate Left has good ideas, Moderate Right has good ideas, some other nation has ideas that could be adapted, sometimes other ideas could work - just use the best available
And, fuck the politics & do the job
Question
Is 'kneeling on the neck' an actual technique sanctioned by Israeli security forces??
Is it part of their training or something they cooked up themselves
Or does it originate from somewhere else in the world ....maybe a technique used centuries ago
If so...could the US police officer have simply copied what he had seen elsewhere (in other words not official police training but something he picked up off the internet)
In which case everybody is right while simultaneously being wrong
Sinnick - fully take your point about the need for competence, but we can't escape the fact that the HoC is designed for personalities. Even now, with thin numbers attending, it's panto season. If KS doesn't get up to a decent level of theatricality he won't make ground against Boris - no matter how good the facts are.
It's the same story we see played out every day with humans. We don't select on the basis of facts, but feelings
"Is 'kneeling on the neck' an actual technique sanctioned by Israeli security forces??"
Even if it were proved that the technique did derive from Israel, as long as the original claim, which featured specific details, was built on assumption not evidence, it was a conspiracy theory. As I say, there are plenty of ways to flag up a concern; we don't need people who are unable to stop themselves jumping to conclusions.
Yet the fact that she still hasn't apologised for it is inexplicable. It's sheer madness. Retweeting something inappropriate is not uncommon. As a politician you have to sometimes have to say sorry and move on. Yet in her tweets she has only been sorry for herself.
@ Sir L "The weakness in KS action is that he's sacked someone he likely wanted to sack. Not so much "follow the rules, firm but fair" as "you've got to be in my gang or you're out". If he sacked an actual ally, that would be impressive. "
Has an ally done what RLB did and not been sacked from the Front Bench? This is fine - but RLB was the first to do it - are you suggesting that the Left Wing get a free pass until a Centrist ally of Starmer's gets sacked, then they are fair game. Sorry, I see what you are saying, but that didn't happen did it? He wasn't dealing with a hypothetical, but an actual.
Of seen the hard left at work in the Party, and they are fanatical as the Right. I don't believe anyone has cornered the market on political truth, so compromise in the direction of socialist values is the best we can do. Especially with our electorate.
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