Ennui all getting a bit boring? Time to move on.
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America-hating Health Care Blog replaces Newsbiscuit.
(30 posts) (14 voices)
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The All New Jeni B
onlineMemberNo, not Thierry Ennui, it's the Irish singer what's other siblings made up Clannad. She sang a song about one of the Wombles.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The All New Jeni B
onlineMember*Snaps fingers* That's the one Scroat. Sounds like she's got a rubber pipe up her Orinoco Flow?
Posted 3 years ago # -
PluckyMunky
offlineMemberthe consultant at the local NHS hospital was one and a half hours late in seeing me today. i reflected on some of the issues raised on this board. i realised that a) i was guaranteed professional health care, despite the delay, b) no-one would give me private health insurance, if i wanted it, which i don't and c) most people in the world (including huge numbers in the US), just don't have my privilege of seeing an expert on a particular disorder, without first showing a credit card or facing a bill.
What, exactly, are the arguments AGAINST giving people healthcare?
Posted 3 years ago # -
The All New Jeni B
onlineMemberI know we have a number of "Drs" on here, but are any of you Medical docs, and can give us an insiders perspective?
Posted 3 years ago # -
ramblesid
offlineMemberIt seems as though all The British contributors to the argument, apart from Mr Square, who works in a Qango like off-shoot of the working world which only pays tax without receiving any pay, are in general agreement. We just don't understand what the Yanks have a problem with. Rather than have this primitive outcry of "it's Socialism therefore it's wrong" how about a rational argument Rikkor? Perhaps Dumbnews could join in as well.
Posted 3 years ago # -
rikkor
offlineMemberI was trying to be nice and stop. But, here's my last volley:
You were all forced into a post-war system that once worked, but now does not. It is impossible for you to do anything about it, so you shut up, or grumble quietly among yourselves.
It drives you absolutely batshit that some folks in your socialist utopia have the $$$ to buy themselves better care. But, you can't say that out loud either, as it would make you feel even more impotent.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Oxbridge
offlineMemberJust how do the septics define 'socialism' Rikkor? We used to have a vaguely socialist party, that's why I joined it, only now it's joined the other two main British parties on the centre-right. Admittedly all three are way to the left of Obama, never mind the nutcases who regard him as a dangerous lefty. Strange world.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Scroat
offlineMemberDon't want to cloud the issue but many people seem to think black or white, NHS or private. There many shades of grey, the most important being that people often start off with the NHS but elect to go private for treatment if they can afford it, either to avoid waiting or to have a more comfortable ward if a stay in hospital is involved. And of course all sorts of medics – from nursing staff to surgeons – operate in both sectors.
So it is in many ways self regulating as those with money can choose to crossover if they wish.
Posted 3 years ago # -
John Square
offlineMemberMr Square, who works in a Qango like off-shoot of the working world which only pays tax without receiving any pay,
Sid, I know that this is a major bee in your bonnet, so, for clarity:
I have a job. I pay tax. I do not recieve money from the public purse as part of my salary. And it's not a quango- it's social housing. I work for a charity that puts people who have nowhere to live, or cannot afford to buy and rent on the open market in homes. One might say I work in the guts of a social(ist) service.
We just don't understand what the Yanks have a problem with. Rather than have this primitive outcry of "it's Socialism therefore it's wrong" how about a rational argument Rikkor? Perhaps Dumbnews could join in as well.
It might be that:
a)Rikkor knows any rational argument in favour of us-style healthcare he puts forth would be viewed as irrational by those of us who have always had the NHS at our beck and call, for those moments when we need to be parked on a trolley in a hospital corridor.
b)that Rikkor (or anyone who hasn't had a national health service before) views our refusal to admit any other system may have its merits as fundamentally irrational, and thus not worth arguing with.
I think both systems have their merits and problems. These can be summarised thus: In the US some people don't get prompt, good quality, free medical attention, but the better off people do. In the UK some people don't get prompt, good quality, free medical attention, but the better off people do.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ramblesid
offlineMemberSorry John, please don't mind me, it was a joke. I found the idea of someone working just to pay tax amusing. As long as you're not on the board of a bank or building society you're ok by me.
You assume a huge amount about what Rikkor knows and how myself and other readers would judge an argument with a counter view to our own.
When I challenged him to a debate I didn't bother to think of any arguments for or against because I knew I wouldn't get one. I expected either no response or what he's done: blindly lashing out with the insults.
There's a lot in the States who, when the word socialism is whispered in their ear immediately start flapping around squawking "The British are coming!"
The American healthcare system doesn't concern me. It's their health and they can do anything they want with it. I don't, though, like the way the faults in our system are being picked out and used, by those with a vested interest, as examples why they shouldn't have anything to do with such an idea.
They could be looking at those faults as a way of making sure they don't make the same mistakes as us.Posted 3 years ago # -
the coarse whisperer
offlineMemberI came here for the knob gags not for an ideological set-to, but I would like to say one thing. It's exasperating the way the debate has been framed (on both sides of the Atlantic) that there is a dichotomy between entirely tax funded, free at the point of use, provision and wholly insurance funded health care when every other industrialised country has a mixed economy that seems to work a lot more efficiently than either. As the old saw goes, if the NHS is so wonderful why does no other country copy it? Now that someone has maybe they'd like to answer how you can have redistribution without rationing?
Posted 3 years ago # -
theumpire
offlineMemberCan I tell you about my NHS experience this week?
When I was attending my local health centre to have the stitches removed from my knee, the nurse tore open a prepacked, sterile pair of forceps (to her, tweezers to you and me) to raise the stitches, then cut them with the scissors which were lying on her desk.
Once this was done, she gave me the tweezers, saying that they would only be thrown away if I didn't want them! They are made from high quality stainless steel. But why, I ask myself, if they are only "one use then discard"? Surely the NHS could save some money here; or perhaps the real solution would be to start using sterilized, pre-packed, one use scissors as well?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Quaz
offlineMemberDon't think we are US bashing here Rikkor, don't want to push so called "socialism" (in the UK now? ha!), just baffled at how the US anti-healthcare lobby has made up so so many lies about the UK system and sold them to so many. It's not even as though you'll end up with anything like the NHS, seems to me it's just going to be a govt sponsored insurance scheme using the existing private healthcare system. British Rightwingers would love to do that here, and I wouldn't be suprised if we end up moving that way (might even be the way to go if the US can make a go of it).
I just haven't heard any cogent argument from the US right against healthcare reform that doesn't involve a bunch of made up scare stories about 'death panels' or some such rubbish, and nothing they say recognises that you can still pay for healthcare if you can or want to. I would genuinely like to hear the real reasoning, but I suspect it's just "it smacks of socialism", and there is no argument against that one to the US right.
Posted 3 years ago #
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