And, it takes a lot for me to call something tasteless. Just think how you would feel being stuck down a mine for four months. God help them. If they were British or American, no one would dare write a flippant FP about them.
Chilean FP tasteless.
(54 posts) (26 voices)
I see your point, but having re-read the piece I don't agree. They are alive and being supplied and will get out eventually. I'm pretty sure that someone would have subbed similar if they had been Brits. That said, if the roof falls in tomorrow and they die then I will be eating my words. It's borderline.
Interesting though that there has been no "cat woman" FP, which goes to show that us Brits fear mocking the suffering of a cat in a bin far more than mocking the suffering of Chileans miles underground. Put like that, it doesn't show us in a good light.
If they were English, we'd just be happy at how much it would piss Maggie Thatcher off. And then someone would write Billy Elliot 2.
I disagree, Rikkor. If the miners were Brits or from the US then I reckon there would still have been subs written about them. Anything's funny if you handle it right and I think that the FP did.
Chilean FP tasteless say hungry miners.
Ungrateful miners told to 'dig deep'.
We are an equal opportunities offender.
Who gives a toss about a bunch of foreigners?
That poor cat however... *sniff*
I wonder if Rikkor was so vociferous when Americans were killing South Americans LEFT right and center ,and at that time the safest place was down a mine
Thanks Rikkor - I think you make a good point, which I will discuss at the end.
Although I don't bear any legal responsibility for this piece - it was the editor's decision to use it after all - as the man who thought the ideas and typed them into a text file, edited, cut and pasted, took out the bit about human sacrifice and vomiting into the anus of the corpses etc - I do have a grain of 'moral' responsibility to explain myself.
Before I come to that, though, I'd like to point out that some of my best friends are trapped miners, and they'll all tell you that I'd be the last one they'd call anti-trapped-miner. Some of them, my friends in the trapped miner community, have already contacted me to congratulate me on this work of genius. Their hastily scribbled messages of support have been a source of great comfort during the furore surrounding this FP and the ensuing backlash.
Their wives have also taken time out of their busy, tearful vigils to post encouraging comments on my Facebook page where I posted a link to this story yesterday.
They love a bit of banter, those lot, those trapped miners, laughing and joking about stuff, and believe me this FP was no worse than some of the parody news items they put up on their own web-based satire sites.
And I think that, if anything, excluding trapped miners as some kind of taboo subject from comedy does them a disservice. Our brave trapped miners don't want to be ring-fenced. They want to be looked in the eye, and included, if the material is funny.
"But Golgo13, the point is you are not a trapped miner yourself. You haven't lived their lives. You don't have the licence to use them as material. If you were a trapped miner, yes. We'd be comfortable with that. We could laugh, knowing that the joke had been endorsed by an actual trapped miner. Or at least if you were a miner. A miner that at least faces the prospect of being trapped."
Well, I'm not a miner, but what I will say is that we are all trapped. The irony of the piece was that by being trapped, they were set free from the moral certainty of their Chilean village, whereas we, up here, are free, but still trapped by the rules of our societies, and that essence of being trapped by societal mores, that very self-censorship could have prevented this FP, this clarion of mental freedom, from seeing the light of day.
Which brings us back to moral relativism, and Rikkor, knowingly I believe, tapping into the fashionable practice of being offended on someone else's behalf, and taking "moral framework 'A'", a personal set of beliefs, to judge something that exists in another time/space with a separate purpose.
So, I think I am right in saying that Rikkor, wittingly and with deep irony, chose to support the piece about moral relativism by bringing "God" into the equation and then making a judgement that assumed his moral views were universal.
Well said sir. I think he's dug himself into a hole.
My point though, pinxit, was that from what I've seen, Rikkor doesn't normally do this. He doesn't normally talk about 'taste' or 'God'. He's a straight down the line funny/not funny critic. So by stepping out of that remit, he's signalling that he knew very well what he was up to, and was fully aware of the irony inherent in imposing his (pretend) moral compass on a piece about how morals are a function of time and place.
So any hole he dug was not for himself, but for others...
...he would also never dream of explaining all this, as that would kill it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he continued in the ironic role of the outraged, offended 'moral majority' reader for the remainder of this thread.
Trapped minors tasteless? That's not what Gary Glitter said.
I think the only practical solution here is to have an Equality Commission approved committee of trapped miners to veto every potential FP.
I would volunteer for this myself, even though I'm not technically trapped, or a miner, I am politically one of them. Moreover, I'll be too busy drowning the kittens I use as surgical gloves when I perform clitorectomies on young Sudenese girls.
"he dug a hole for others " that was very deep Golgo.
I think when you have miners trapped down a mine the best we can all do is make light of it. It's not easy being on the outside but people forget that.
And your Mum smells, Rikkor.
Sorry, still don't agree that it is funny. And, I also believe that the citizens of some countries are considered non-persons in the "first world".
I think there would be almost no humor in the world if the litmus test is "what is that happened to someone you love or know?" But, try to at least think that way a little bit.
We all agree that rape or Holocaust jokes are a laff riot unless it happens to your daughter, or your wife, or your neighbors the Goldsteins.
His mum smells of rikkor.
Of course if something had happened to a family member then you would not joke about ,but there is the passage of time and everything becomes funny ,maybe if you rikkor
I think you might be projecting a bit, Rikkor...I don't think the piece belittled Chileans or treated them as non-people. I thought that the piece tried to paint them as complex, feeling humans, albeit in extremis.
But if you don't think it's funny then fair enough. It makes me appreciate the times you have said nice stuff about other bits I've written...
My daughter worked in a call centre for a while. Apparently, one day of that is exactly like being stuck down a mine for four months.
And all of the things that we make fun of in here is making fun of someone that someone else knows - quite a few people know David Cameron, starting with his wife, ditto Gordon Brown, Clegg, Obama etc. If this really is your newly discovered litmus test Rik we wouldn't be posting anything.
Are you sure that you are still you Rik - or have you been possesed by the ghost of Phoebe from Friends?
Anyway I have just heard that they are going to be out in time for Christmas, just like the X-Factor single.
Last christmas you dug a new shaft
it took four months
we were going daft
but this year to be on safe side
we are going work for people that arent so snide
please add ,change ,sing ,Rikkor do what you do best
I only read this FP because of this thread, the headline didn't drag me in - it's one of those where it's impossible to sum it up, I guess.
And I think it's one of the best-written pieces ever to grace NewsBiscuit, and I should know, because I've written a few.
FWIW, I don't think it belittles anyone - if I were a trapped Chilean miner, which I admit is a leap, it would make me very happy.
If there is a tragedy, Dawkins forbid, I wouldn't expect there to be any more FPs on this subject. But as it looks like they'll get out ok, I'm going to joke about it, sorry. My own take on this was a single, very fat miner emerging sheepishly after 4 months...
Beautiful, sparking writing, golgo. If they do all die you are indeed going to hell, but it's worth the risk for stuff this good.
What happens to the miners is irrelevant. If something's funny, it's funny. Otherwise, what's the point? People need to stop playing it safe.
Anyway I have just heard that they are going to be out in time for Christmas, just like the X-Factor single.
- Of the two I might buy a Chilean Minor.
FP was one of the funniest I have read of late - there's that moment when you do think - should I find this funny? - but it's that small slice of doubt that encourages you to laugh that bit more.
If the news had been reporting that they had days to live then I don't think this story would have been written/published/laughed at - but as we've been told they're just basically trapped but will get out after a few months <<he types as if to say only a few months - obv that's a hell of a long time to go>> - I remember a similar thread a while back about life inside jail...
Anyway - reminded me of the Beaconsfield disaster in Oz - a Foo Fighter fan told me about that (see the FF bit on the link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaconsfield_Mine_collapse - so I hope that people just do cool things for them all when they get out of there. & hope the unions get better safety for workers as a result of this too...
Personally I didn't get the offence or the humour in the story, but the writer's defence of the piece was quality.
last year we got the shaft
they stopped our pay
we could have laughed
this year we`re taking beer
probably Carlsberg special.
crowded room, pals with aching asses
we gotta admit ,we prefer lasses
This year we got the bosses
holed them up
deserved it the tossers
next year we`ll them out
thats if we don
t forget -em
Golgo, old chap, did I miss something? Looking at your reply to my throw away 'hole-digging' post - is it possible you have attributed too much subtlety to Rikkor's post?
If he is trowelling on layers of irony with his original post, then it is waaay beyond my ken.
More circles than Dante's inferno. That way lies madness.
My brain hurts.
I'm afraid it didn't even occur to me to find it tasteless or offensive. I thought it was brilliant.
I notice on their website that the BBC are offering in-depth coverage of the mine situation. I find that funny too.
I really wanted to believe that Rikkor taking a moral stance on a piece that highlights plural perspectives of morality was intentional irony, but maybe not...
This really shows your ignorance about humour Rikkor. Much of it's to do with fear and the idea of being stuck down a mine for months is too horrendous to think of seriously.
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