http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684 The NewsBiscuit Community en-US Wed, 19 Jun 2013 07:02:23 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/search.php http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=3#post-144635 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:55:29 +0000 dvo4fun 144635@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Both abhorrent and both should be dealt with. This doesn't seem to me to be a case where 'pecking rights' apply </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=3#post-144596 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:07:42 +0000 waylandsmithy 144596@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Personally, I'm slightly less troubled by a company that uses unethical ways of breaking a news story, to one that turns a blind eye to child rape within its buildings.</p> <p>Why even compare the two, though? Why do the BBC keep bringing up phone hacking when Savile is mentioned? Does a News corp journalist listening to private voicemail mean it's less disturbing that a high profile BBC presenter raped children?</p> <p>Both actions are wrong, but I'm pretty certain about which I find more abhorrent. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=3#post-144586 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:37:38 +0000 beau-jolly 144586@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>There has been a lot of debate about what was "normal" in the 70s. Are we assuming that JS stopped being a pervert during his last 2 or 3 decades? What changed? Maybe when he was 80 he got his kicks fondling 30 year olds? Somehow I doubt it. Why are questions not being asked about how he got away with it last year? </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=3#post-144437 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:36:39 +0000 Ironduke 144437@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I'm all for the judgement of people within their times- rather than automatically cringeing at the un-PC language of grand-parents, the racially segregated US army of World War Two, barbaric army floggings of 200years ago or the paedophilic arranged marriages of medieval Kings of England all should be seen and appraised in the light of their own era.</p> <p>However...I can't see that particularly applies people turning a blind eye to kiddie fiddling 20-40 years ago.</p> <p>I think the exposure of a culture of acceptance of ill-behaviour by the powerful would be very, very useful...and quite possibly prove a catalyst to all sorts of changes in perception in big corporations today? </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144436 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:15:17 +0000 ronseal 144436@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Good point Suburban Dad.</p> <p>I must admit I've developed an obsession with the BBC which is bordering on psychotic. Or unhealthy at least. </p> <p>And a lot of what they do is brilliant.</p> <p>If only they'd stop awarding themselves ginormous salaries for reading autocues, avoiding taxes and then lecturing us on how to vote. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144432 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:37:41 +0000 SuburbanDad 144432@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>The BBC may as well run an investigation into how it got away with the black and white minstrel show for twenty years. The tobacco companies have been sued for knowing what they sold could kill, but I'm not aware of any pub being sued for allowing a culture of passive smoking when everyone took smoking for granted. Until recently the Sun had no qualms about shoving a pair of 16 year old tits on page 3 the very day the poor girl in posession of them turned 16. It also did the whole Charlotte Church countdown to legality thing just 12 years ago. Murdoch can fuck the fuck off if he thinks the illegal action of one pervy peter pan dj should bring down the fantastic institution that is the BBC. With phone hacking it's quite clear that Murdoch's managers either condoned it or actually ordered it in order to get good stories for the benefit of news corp papers. There is no suggestion whatsoever that the BBC ordered Savile to touch up children to spice up Top of The Pops. Both sorry episodes had life destroying consequences for some of their victims, but one resulted from management incredulity/naivety and the other from management fiat. The company whose management ordered wrongdoing cannot pass harsher judgment on the company whose management did not want to see it. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144427 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:45:43 +0000 ronseal 144427@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Where can you get Jimmy Savile masks?</p> <p>I'm sick of burning an effigy of Guy Fawkes.</p> <p>This year I want to stuff an old track suit bottom and a string vest top with leaves, and give it a head with a blonde wig and the face of a radio 1 dj.</p> <p>Ideally, this creation would have one of those electronic gadgets installed, so you could pull a string and it would say "How's about that then, boys and gurls?" </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144283 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:17:32 +0000 waylandsmithy 144283@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I don't think the focus is entirely on Savile: the real scandal is 'how did he get away with it for so long?'.</p> <p>It's really important that there's a full and open investigation into the BBC and other institutions to make sure it doesn't happen again, and to make sure anyone guilty of collusion is brought to justice.</p> <p>It's a pretty massive scandal, when you think about it. The media are already trying to muddy the waters of child rape by bringing up 'inappropriate groping' and 'cultures of sexism' in parallel with it. There's no comparison. A bawdy 70s atmosphere is hardly an excuse for raping children, or not mentioning that you saw children being raped, is it?</p> <p>I think trust in the BBC is currently at an all-time low. If nothing else, a full and proper enquiry is needed if that trust is ever likely to be rebuilt. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144282 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:10:44 +0000 Ironduke 144282@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Definitely- this Saville row suits no-one. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144281 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:08:38 +0000 Tripod 144281@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>What's missing from the whole sorry Savile saga is a legal outcome. He lived to the ripe of old age of 84 without ever being held responsible for his crimes and behaviours. People feel cheated that a man who behaved so badly, for so long, and with impunity, seems to have got away with it. </p> <p>A court case might have dragged on and on, but it would have reached a conclusion eventually. With the man in his (now unmarked) grave, there's no obvious end to claim and counter-claim, accusation and hurt. I'm concerned that other people will be put in the dock simply because Savile isn't available to answer for what he did. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144270 Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:08:07 +0000 AReader 144270@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Dvo:</p> <p><blockquote>Not so. The evidence of a victim is not 'hearsay'.</p> <p>Just a couple of years ago I had the great good fortune to see an elderly 'paedophile' given a custodial sentence [Good Show your Honour!]for historic offences some of which were over 35 years old. Clearly no 'physical evidence' available to the prosecution, just the testimony of a victim who had lived with it for all of her adult life.</blockquote></p> <p>I stand corrected. (Actually I'm sitting down corrected, but that doesn't sound right). </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144211 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:20:53 +0000 sigmund 144211@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Hi, Oxbridge,<br /> Masson’s ‘against therapy’ sets out a damning case against Freud; his influence on psychiatry and psychotherapy cannot be dismissed. Up until the 1950’s the major schools were psychoanalysis and behaviourism, both of which perpetrated human rights abuses (by modern standards) against patients, especially women and children. But, thanks for the tip, I’ll look that book up. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144167 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:45:52 +0000 Sigmund Freud 144167@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>thanks Oxy.</p> <p>I'm with, if I recollect correctly, Graham Linehan on this. Build a urinal on Savile's grave. I'd pay a fiver to take a leak there. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144156 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:36:59 +0000 Oxbridge 144156@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Sigmund - Freud may have had a dodgy perspective on it but he was only influential in some quarters. In the Vienna of his day serious child abusers were hunted down by the law - see 'Postcards from the End of the World' by Larry Wolfe. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144108 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:20:32 +0000 charlies_hat 144108@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Couldn't agree more Mary "every bloody H-lister spinning their own yarns of sexual misconduct in its wake" - the two stories are being reported in parallel, when they couldn't be further apart. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144105 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:02:11 +0000 Tripod 144105@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>If you want to play 'spot the abuser', look no further than 'Dad'. The abuse of children is largely a family business. Because this truth is hard to contemplate, we prefer to imagine paedophiles as seedy, rat-faced men. Sydney Cooke provided a convenient template)...<br /> <img src="http://imageshack.us/a/img40/4479/48470545.jpg"> </p> <p>One reason why Jimmy Savile got away with it for so long may be our reluctance to judge a man solely on his appearance. Just because a man <em>looked</em> dodgy, we reasoned, doesn't mean he <em>was</em> dodgy. Of course, every now and again, the truth and the stereotype collide... </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144097 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:46:25 +0000 Sinnick 144097@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I wonder how many of us have been warned, when we were young, of a certain uncle. I certainly was, and recently found out the cause of these suspicions. No police involvement as far as I know, and the uncle is now 90+ so there is no public interest in pursuing it, and the legal evidence would be impossible to obtain - the only result would be to devastate the whole extended family, most of whom are also very old and frail. My aunt (otherwise a very moral and annoyingly religious person) really should have done something about it at the time, but didn't - loyalty would seem to be more important.</p> <p>So, I suspect there are an awful lot more dodgy uncles out there, with their deeds "kept firmly in the family". </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144090 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:16:51 +0000 waylandsmithy 144090@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>If David Icke was right about this, then that means we're definitely being controlled by lizard people, too. Let's dig up Edward Heath, Lord Mountbatten and Fluff Freeman, and look for obvious signs of scales.</p> <p>This really looks bad on the BBC, though. Something is rotten in Propaganda House. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144083 Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:54:33 +0000 sigmund 144083@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>THe issue of belief / disbelief goes back a long way. Early in his career Freud (no relation) found himself confronted with large numbers of female patients reporting childhood sexual abuse. He could not accept that such a thing could happen in staid Vienna; after all, this was Europe at the pinnacle of civilisation, not some barbarian backwater. So, to him, it was obvious that the women were expressing fantasies from the unconscious. Thereafter, for about 50 - 100 years until psychoanalysis was given a kicking by humanistic psychology, women were frequently incarcerated in asylums on the authority of psychiatrists, simply because they had reported child-sex abuse and were, by definition, hysterical and deluded. In many cases, if the woman became ‘promiscuous’ (e.g., had sex outside marriage) it only took a report from the father or husband to the ‘Doctor' to have his daughter / wife locked-up indefinitely. </p> <p>The Kafka-esque horror of the woman’s situation must have been unbearable, for, once committed, <strong>ANYTHING</strong> the woman did could be taken as confirmation of the ’diagnosis.’ Crying? Confirmed. Shouting angrily? Confirmed. Suicide attempts? Confirmed. Passive compliance with the regimen? Also confirmed. A complete nightmare. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144061 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:19:37 +0000 Ironduke 144061@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Perhaps if this whole horrid business could achieve anything, its the realisation that there seems to have been scores of people out there thinking it would only be them making an allegation, and they wouldn't be believed.</p> <p>It makes me wonder just how many people there are out there keeping something to themselves? And perhaps they might start to feel that they are unlikely to be alone, and that they WILL be believed. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144058 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:35:57 +0000 The All New Jeni B 144058@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I was speaking to a fellow student today, who used to work within a field which encounters many troubled young people.</p> <p>She told me that back in the 80s, one of her colleagues arranged a trip for some of them to visit the TOTP studio where JS was hosting.</p> <p>More than one of the children reported at the time that JS had touched them inappropriately, and not all were girls.</p> <p>This was reported to the Floor Manager who promised to deal with it and they never heard anything more.</p> <p>The point my friend made was that these were troubled children, many of whom had already suffered abuse, and who were very unlikely to be believed.</p> <p>At least one of those children has reported this to the police, and others intend to.</p> <p>I suspect that it was the very vulnerability of these children and the others affected which made them more appealing to JS, and the knowledge that few would believe them. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144054 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:57:48 +0000 Mary Evans 144054@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I find the whole business horribly odd and sad and wish this had all come to light at a time when there was the opportunity for defence or punishment. I hope all concerned can find peace. </p> <p>What gets my panties in a bunch is every bloody H-lister spinning their own yarns of sexual misconduct in its wake. Like most gals, I've experienced most of the workplace gamut, from impish banter to uncomfortable conduct. It's not that hard to distinguish between the two. If you leave the encounter laughing, it's all well and good. If you leave the encounter with a pair of testes in your hands, professional boundaries have probably been crossed. </p> <p>When I worked in a very blokey newsroom as a youngling, I was once very publicly invited to sit on a male colleague's face. I'm sure I should have taken him to tribunal, but my polite enquiry as to whether his nose was bigger than his knob seemed to settle the matter. And earn me several beers to boot. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144021 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:55:48 +0000 The All New Jeni B 144021@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Absolutely dvo.<br /> There was a local case of a pretty similar nature earlier this year. A man was found guilty of historic abuse and was jailed for 20+ yrs.</p> <p>There is no need for physical evidence if there is sufficient other evidence to corroborate the victim's statement.</p> <p>I'd heard the rumours about the mortuary too, and it was one of the first stories to resurface last year after his death.<br /> Along with the tales of is late mother... </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-144017 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:19:42 +0000 dvo4fun 144017@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>@AReader "I suspect that had Savile been alive, he would have been sued under civil rather than criminal laws, since there was (and is) no physical evidence, only hearsay."</p> <p>Not so. The evidence of a victim is not 'hearsay'.</p> <p>Just a couple of years ago I had the great good fortune to see an elderly 'paedophile' given a custodial sentence [Good Show your Honour!]for historic offences some of which were over 35 years old. Clearly no 'physical evidence' available to the prosecution, just the testimony of a victim who had lived with it for all of her adult life.</p> <p>The victim had only come forward when a young relative of hers (Daughter? Niece?) mentioned - in passing but to the victim's horror - that she was visiting the same chap who still lived in the same house. </p> <p>Same up there Jeni?</p> <p>Sorry I must get out more </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143987 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:22:37 +0000 Ironduke 143987@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Paedophilia, Necrophilia...I think all these 'Philia'telists should be stamped out. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143973 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:51:39 +0000 Tripod 143973@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Savile had access to mortuaries</blockquote></p> <p>These were the first rumours I ever heard about Savile (and I mean years ago...), that he had an unnatural interest in corpses. It seemed rather far-fetched. At the time... </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143969 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:37:25 +0000 beau-jolly 143969@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I'm sure I heard or read over the weekend someone speculating that Savile had access to mortuaries and that they were looking at the possibility of inappropriate interference with the bodies. WTF! I am sure the bastard was not above strangling kittens.</p> <p>(I bloody well hope I didn't dream this!) </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143959 Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:48:48 +0000 Scroat 143959@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>If Hitler had his way he would have bracketed Clare Balding with Jimmy Savile as being gas chamber fodder. Or were paedophiles ok but Jew, gypsies and homosexuals not?</p> <p>BTW anyone remember her coverage of the Grand National? She interviewed owners and patted horses very professionally. Then half an hour later two of the horses were dead and she was really upset. A barbaric business. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143849 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:29:32 +0000 Vehement 143849@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p><a href="http://www.missmoss.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hitler.jpg">A side of hitler you've never seen before.</a> </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=49684&page=2#post-143839 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:45:37 +0000 The All New Jeni B 143839@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Just once, couldn't it be Hitler? </blockquote></p> <p>Didn't he have an affair with his 13 year old niece? </p>