http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/tags.php?tag=healthcare The NewsBiscuit Community en-US Thu, 23 May 2013 04:09:02 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/search.php http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-4176 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:43:57 +0000 Quaz 4176@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Murdoch was Australian but became a US citizen in 1985 in order to own tv channels there, hence my comment that the US can keep him. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3889 Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:59:46 +0000 MrChigleysAunt 3889@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Serious question. Why aren't all the subsidies that American farmers receive considered 'socialism'? I'm making a wild guess here, but I suspect your average American farmer is against, rather than for Obamacare, and yet is happy to receive taxpayers' money. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3867 Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:31:40 +0000 The All New Jeni B 3867@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Australian. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3840 Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:18:39 +0000 rikkor 3840@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Blah, blah, blah, blah. Keep your NHS, just don't help foist it on us. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Rupert Murdoch is a Canadian or some such thing. Explains a lot. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3743 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:42:50 +0000 Quaz 3743@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>No one would dispute that US healthcare is top notch if you have the money to pay for it. There are often local news stories in the UK about people raising money to send a sick child to the states for some cutting edge treatment, but that tends to be because it isn't done here at all in the NHS or private sector. The reason for this is likely more to do with the US having more money than the UK to throw at things and 5 times or more the population of the UK so it becomes more viable to develop treatments that affect a low percentage of the population. I'm sure the proft motive is also a big driver, the US medical industry can attract paying customers from all over the world so it's worth investing in medicine, but then again plenty of people the world over head to Harley street as well for UK experts. As soon as the cutting edge stuff gets more routine it generally makes it's way into the UK private system, then the NHS. The NHS isn't a Rolls Royce, if you want that you have to pay, but it's a fairly reliable familly runabout. It may well be a bit of a gas guzzler in need of a retune, but that's a whole other argument.</p> <p>I just find it odd that a country like the US could find it acceptable to leave such a large chunk of it's population with little or no healthcare provision, even basic stuff, outside of the work of charities. Apart from anything else, surely it makes little ecconomic sense to let a large chunk of workers and consumers slide into poverty and unproductivity for the want of at least basic care.</p> <p>Neither system seems ideal. The US medical industry tends to over test and over proscribe because it makes money, while under the NHS you have to read up and kick ass to get anything beyond the basics in case it breaks the local PCC budget.</p> <p>Still, the US and the UK may share a common language but we have very different ideas about the role of the state and govt. You can send us your lefties (maybe not Michael Moore) to see if it puts them off the idea, just so long as you keep Murdoch and Fox news. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3736 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:50:17 +0000 ramblesid 3736@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I know Rikky baby you're not trying to be sarcastic and are totally serious in what you say. So am I when I say you really do not know what you're talking about so don't criticise our system of looking after those less fortunate than the most healthy or the most able to afford health insurance. When your nation adopts a more caring attitude you may even be the more respected for it, and God knows you need a bit more of that, rather than hatred and pity. (this is not written with a smiley face) </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3728 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:21:51 +0000 rikkor 3728@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Soilaized medicine was great when all they could do for you was give you a couple of aspirins and send you home to die. They can atually help you live now. </p> <p>America is a totally different world from your world. You have no idea until you live here. </p> <p>I absolutely know that those who can ($$$) from all over the world come here when they need the best medical help. Just last month, a Canadian provincial premier came here for a routine heart procedure. If he stayed in Canada, he would most likely be dead now. Please keep your foolish socialism to yourselves. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3703 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:50:14 +0000 ramblesid 3703@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>No, I'm enjoying this-but i'll still have the Valiun, Ta chuck </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293&page=2#post-3701 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:47:03 +0000 PluckyMunky 3701@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Ram, take a deep breath and half a Valium... </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3699 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:43:49 +0000 ramblesid 3699@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>John,<br /> I didn't suggest you were asking for sympathy. If you read the words where I say you aren't getting any, from no word in the sentence could you be expected to infer you asked for it. I've tried reading the rest of your rant, unfortunately without the aid of the new, modern, Thatcher-lite Davey-lamp I find the rest of your argument a load of Alice in Cuckoo Land<br /> P.s. please don't try and hit me with anything about Boris Johnson being relevant to any discussion whatsoever. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3676 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:12:22 +0000 edward hack 3676@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>A few years ago I collapsed on the street in Washington DC - before they checked my pulse they checked that I could actually pay for them checking my pulse.<br /> Mind you once I proved I had the means, they were amazing.<br /> Lead to me getting checked out when I got home and saving my sorry arse.<br /> You won't hear too many complaints from the sick people being treated.<br /> Now it is in - will any future Gov have the nerve to throw it out</p> <p>Totally agree with John that healthcare begins at home. If you can't be arsed to look after yourself then why should anyone else be expected to do it for you.<br /> NHS - Post Office - Beeb envy of the world </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3674 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:00:54 +0000 John Square 3674@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>A friend of mine has had two girlfriends "go gay" whilst seeing him. One halfway through the physical act of love. He's still upbeat and positive, though, which is more than I think I would be.<br /> Anyhow.</p> <p>Sid, I'm not sure I said much of what you were replying to in your post, and the other stuff you said I agree with. In fact I think we are saying much the same thing re: the NHS and the need to start again.</p> <p>Oh, you rather mischieviously suggest I was asking for sympathy, which is a bit cheeky, as I didn't think I was. Bad Ramblesid!</p> <p>My point really was: wouldn't it be great if everyone paid less tax because government wasn't stacked to the rafters with the the incompetent, crooked and the stupid. Indeed, wouldn't it be nice if we could have a discussion about tax without resorting to namecalling and characterisation of anyone who simply wanted not to give the government about half of everything they earn as some sort sort of blue blooded, toffee nosed oppressor of the people. Cos that's shit and that.</p> <p>In short, tax isn't about "us vs. them", unless the "us" are the people who pay it, and the "them" is the people who spend it. In which case, break out the pitchforks and I'll rustle me up a mob.</p> <p>Finally: wealth is not a pizza. If you have loads, it doesn't mean I have to feed my family with the greasy cardboard box. Equally, it doesn't follow that the role of government is to beat your door down, take half the pizza you worked for and give some of it to me, whilst eating most of the taken half themselves. Only crazy people think that's a great way to live.</p> <p>Oh, and as for who pays tax: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm</a> </p> <p>Average salaries: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8151355.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8151355.stm</a> </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3659 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:07:40 +0000 PluckyMunky 3659@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>oddly enough (or not, as the case may be), I know lots of lesbians and always seem to have done. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3654 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:46:55 +0000 ramblesid 3654@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>The number of times I've walked in a couple of lesbians, while they've been "at it", and they've pleaded with me to join them in a rampant threesome you wouldn't believe Plucky. It's none - I told you you wouldn't believe it. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3640 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:50:27 +0000 PluckyMunky 3640@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>There is one area in which I wished I knew what you know, Mr Square. We searched for years for a school for our kids that had lots of lesbianism on the curriculum. But could we find one? No! </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3638 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:37:50 +0000 MADJEZ 3638@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Talking of voting there's a nice ad at the top of the page which lets absolutely anyone regardless of nationality have a vote on American healthcare. I had a go and think its a great idea, should we do the same for the general election ? </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3633 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:02:26 +0000 Zadok the second 3633@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I am not happy about the phrase 'Americans <em>narrowly</em> vote' in the title. It implies that the non-narrow people all sat at home on their potato-couches. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3620 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:43:00 +0000 ramblesid 3620@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Christ! you type quick. It's all good humoured as far as I'm concerned. I do sarcasm 'cos I enjoy it, not to offend. This does not always work with waiters.<br /> I think you miss the point a bit with choosing where your tax money goes. Yes, Labour have the reputation for high taxes and Tories for low(er) but that doesn't always work and the main problem is wastage. As for the NHS I think they should totally dismantle it and start again from scratch, while trying not to be ill in the intervening period.<br /> I had health insurance for a while, some years ago, through a job I had. Sent to hospital by my GP after most of a day having tests and waiting around they decided to admit me.'I can go private' I said,'I'll get a room to myself and save the NHS money at the same time.' The aggression from the formerly friendly doctors this, what I thought innocuous, statement created was quite incredible to witness. They more or less told me to fuck off then, if I wanted to go private I'd have to start all over again and check in as a private patient.<br /> We had some of the Singaporean relatives to stay and one of them needed some treatment. Visiting the local surgery they said they were quite happy to pay, they had travel insurance. The surgery staff didn't bother charging, they probably didn't want to do the paperwork, or possible know what to do. I was a travel agent for quite a few years and on several occasions booked foreign nationals, visiting relatives here, on holidays to Europe. They all wanted travel insurance to go Europe but were happy to stay here for months without it. I've also had several clients had their holidays ruined because they've had insurance, particularly in Spain. People with a minor complaint being rushed off to the local private hospital, probably part owned by the doctor, and stuck there for the rest of their holiday having unnecessary tests done.<br /> Your pal O'Rourke is wrong. Health care in the States is the most expensive in the world because it has been so much inflated by the insurance system. Insurance companies always cherry pick and my mother would be lucky to get insurance at any price.<br /> Tough luck with not being able to do any tax fiddles. The most tax money paid, percentage wise, I think is from the lower paid. You get no sympathy from me. If you're paying a lot of tax you're getting a lot of pay. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3608 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:21:17 +0000 John Square 3608@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Sorry John. In your short story, Corporate Life, of a couple of weeks ago (back on page 5 now) in the 2nd line when you said "I work in the public sector" I got the wrong end of the stick completely. You probably work in advertising for financial services then?</blockquote></p> <p>Actually- I went back and looked, because I'd wondered where you got it from. I work for a Housing Association, which bears many of the hallmarks of the public sector (including pension), but I/the organisation gets not a bean of the public purse. I usually describe it as Public Sector though, as everyone thinks of it as "cahncil 'ousin'" and it's less of a mouthful than "third sector/Provident and Industrial Society and registered charity". But props for calling me on what looks like what Stephen Byers would call an "exaggeration of sorts", or lying.</p> <p><blockquote> agree with you about there being too much government and something serious needs to be done about the inefficiencies of the NHS, as well as much else but I think if you can afford to give your kids a private education you can afford to pay an accountant to find you ways of paying less tax.</blockquote></p> <p>If only! From my research, there's precious little an accountant can do for you if you are employed by one organisation, and benefit from a salary only. Any tax shenanigans only seem to benefit those with either complex bonus/remuneration arrangements, or those who contract their servicesto multiple paymasters in a financial year. In addition, where my employ is governemd by the Housing Act there is a general, and rather woolly requirement for me to act with probity all the time, and forming myself into a limited company and writing off food as a tax-deductible expense would probably conflict with that. And besides, cheating the system isn't really the name of the game- a fairer system of tax in the first place would be better for all, no?</p> <p><blockquote>We don't normally chose what our tax money goes on, or get a refund if we don't use what's provided. Millions are spent on the railways but lots of people never travel by rail. Why should an agoraphobic who can't leave the house pay for street lighting?<br /> </blockquote><br /> Well, we do choose in a way- General Elections for one. I'm a bit disheartened that no-one has looked at tax in general in aserious manner for the fear of being branded some sort of toff-lover doing favours for wealthy mates. The vast majority of tax in this country is paid for by people on lower incomes than what many would think of as the super-rich. Crap tax is an assault on the very people that the left claim to represent. A decent, transparent tax system would do more to improve the lives of everyone in this country than anything else, in my humble. As for railways- those shouldn't be funded from the public purse either. My suspicion is that generous subsidies have probably got us where we are with trains now, and it's not befitting our status as a nation. Or it does, depending on how you view our status as a nation. Whatever.</p> <p><blockquote>Of the 60 odd million people in this country most have several tales to tell about the NHS but I think most would rather have it, with its imperfections, than not at all. The Americans seem to have an inbuilt hatred of the idea of bureaucrats deciding what sort of treatment they can have. They'd rather give that job to the insurance companies, who of course, are benevolent organisations with only their customers interests in mind. </blockquote></p> <p>And I agree. Well, on the NHS at least. I think that the American/Republican suspicion on Healthcare can probably be best summed up by P.J. O'Rourke: "You think Healthcare is expensive now... Wait 'til you see what it costs when it's free". </p> <p>And on insurance companies- it's a contract, and the terms are written and recorded for people to make an informed decision on. And whilst they might not love their customers, Insurance companies do have an affection for their money- and if it comes down to trusting politicians, and trusting a contract that is mutually beneficial, and upheld by law- I know where I'd put my money.</p> <p>(Thanks for the response- I do hope that none of the above is offensive, to either Mr Sid, or anyone else. Genuine debate and discourse on big ideas is always pleasant and thought-provoking, and sadly isn;t seen often enough. Not even in pre-election televised debates.) </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3602 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:58:03 +0000 ramblesid 3602@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Sorry John. In your short story, Corporate Life, of a couple of weeks ago (back on page 5 now) in the 2nd line when you said "I work in the public sector" I got the wrong end of the stick completely. You probably work in advertising for financial services then?<br /> I agree with you about there being too much government and something serious needs to be done about the inefficiencies of the NHS, as well as much else but I think if you can afford to give your kids a private education you can afford to pay an accountant to find you ways of paying less tax. We don't normally chose what our tax money goes on, or get a refund if we don't use what's provided. Millions are spent on the railways but lots of people never travel by rail. Why should an agoraphobic who can't leave the house pay for street lighting?<br /> I'm all for BUPA. Any idea of the premiums involved to insure my 82 year old mum with a list of conditions longer than a colonoscopy tube?<br /> Of the 60 odd million people in this country most have several tales to tell about the NHS but I think most would rather have it, with its imperfections, than not at all. The Americans seem to have an inbuilt hatred of the idea of bureaucrats deciding what sort of treatment they can have. They'd rather give that job to the insurance companies, who of course, are benevolent organisations with only their customers interests in mind. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3574 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:46:40 +0000 Scroat 3574@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>The more I delve into the American psyche, the less I understand it. How can they put a man on the moon, but at the same time have so many people 'harboring' such backward principles? And why do they all want to carry guns? And why can't they spell proper? </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3569 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:27:52 +0000 John Square 3569@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>I think you work in the public sector Mr Square, if we could cut you out of your pension scheme we'd give up a couple of heartbeats </blockquote></p> <p>Ahhh- Sid, I work not in the public sector, I'm afraid. I recieve no taxpayer money at all. I do have a final salary pension, though ;)</p> <p>At the risk of extending a dead argument, but to speak in my "defense": I think the NHS is a great thing, like the BBC and state-pensions. However, as someone who values the idea of a small government that performs efficiently for its revenue, and the general principle of personal liberty, I think it's use should be a choice.</p> <p>I also firmly believe- personally, mind you, and I'm not arguing that everyone should feel this way- that if you can afford <em>not</em> to use the NHS (or indeed, state schools) you should stand aside and let the needy get to them. I'm BUPA'd up (and they helped me out big style a few years back) and if any smaller Squares pop along, I'll probably put them to an independent school.</p> <p>So if I do all that, I think that a wedge off my tax should only be fair. You can opt out of SERPS, the license fee, etc, but I'm tithed to give to the NHS and a state school system that seems to value the teaching of lesbianism over maths and english. Can you see a disconnect?</p> <p>(Dislcosure- I'm a state school boy, and not only have I used the NHS, I've <em>worked</em> for them.)</p> <p>I also believe heartily in the free market- underpinned by principle that the more people will pay for something the better that something is likely to be. I find the NHS and schools an anachronism in that respect: indeed the more money thrown at those two things, the worse they seem to get (although I accept that there are plenty of exceptions to the rule: our local state primary seems to get great OFSTED inspections, although it was slapped around a bit for not making diversity a big enough part of it's agenda, despite the fact that there's no BME pupils there at all).</p> <p>Does this make me an horrible right-wing, Daily Mail reading bastard? Probably in many people's eyes it does, but at the bottom of it all, I absolutely hate two things (not gays and foreigners! I'm honestly not a Daily Mail reader!): being told what to do, and inefficiency. In my eyes, government does far two much of those things, and the more it gets involved in something, the more waste and constraints on my life is likely to arise. Sometimes these things are even seen together ("Overweight and want to use the NHS? Smoke and want to use the NHS? Tough. Also- you are a BAD PERSON and a burden on our hardest working families etc. etc. By the way, we are putting taxes up, 'cos the hospitals need the money").</p> <p>Now- I honestly think a "free at the point of consumption" health service is the mark of a civilised country, and ditto for a high literacy rate. I just think that people should be free to make choices about this stuff and that someone who imposes a lower burden on the state, should be in turn less burdened by the state. </p> <p>Now: Tell me why I'm so wrong and shit, and that I'm a nasty man, who probably does things that should get me on one of those naughty people's databases that the government keeps talking about. Best answer gets a prize! </p> <p>All my love,</p> <p>John Square<br /> <em>The People's Pariah</em> </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3551 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:58:57 +0000 sauce 3551@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I lived in California for over 5 years. Both kids were born there. Both pregnancies were problematical. I spent last month of son's gestation in Stanford Hospital wired up to all kinds of bleepy and drippy nasty things. The final "bill" came in at over $150,000. We had health insurance so didn't pay directly BUT we had a whacking great cut out of each month's pay check and we filled in so many forms, so much fecking paperwork. The insurers are BIG, BIG business. And they don't want to lose that business. "Death panels"? that's the kind of decicisions those inurance groups make all the time. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3543 Tue, 23 Mar 2010 01:01:51 +0000 Quaz 3543@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I'm sure Rikkor just posted that to get a rise out of us (he's a tinker he is), but he raises an important point worth making to US readers. In the UK you DO have the option to go private, pay for your care, jump the queue, and see the same idiot consultant who will misdiagnose you months earlier than he would if you wait to see him under the NHS. I've used private and NHS and ended up with the same dolt.</p> <p>A friend in NY became quite ill 10 years ago and paid through the nose for a hospital stay (no insurance, he was working a couple of contracts that each kept him just under the hours limit to get cover from work). After every test under the sun (all costing him money) his girlfriend pointed him to a Doctor friend who gave time to help those without insurance. Guess what, one of the diagnoses he had been given at the hospital was only applicable to women, and the free doc sorted him out with a few cheap pills and no tests. Left facing a huge bill for useless tests from the hospital, he skipped town.</p> <p>I'd rather our imperfect system than the sight of people queuing from dawn in a parking lot for one of those visits by a triage service of medics and dentists giving their service for free that you get in some poor US areas. The NHS is far from perfect, and no we shouldn't allow it's abuse by foreign health tourists, and there is an arguement to be had about how much we have a reciprical duty to keep ourselves healthy, but it is better than nothing at all. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3535 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:46:41 +0000 thisisall1word 3535@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>"Americans narrowly vote to give a shit about their fellow man" </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3529 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:38:31 +0000 PluckyMunky 3529@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>but people have to have the dosh to go private, that's the point, jeni. and most people in th uk (and i suspect the us) haven't got it. at least a national health system allows for a safety net for most of us without the sort of funds to 'go private'. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3528 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:25:40 +0000 The All New Jeni B 3528@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>If it hadn't been for the excellent NHS, neither the YM nor myself would be here today. Although, if I'd gone private, I could have had an elective section three weeks before the emergency one. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3502 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:31:10 +0000 PluckyMunky 3502@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>Gawd! Ram comes up with a sensible series of propositions and people go on about 'wanting to be rich and withdraw from the nhs'. i reckon we would all miss the nhs, in the uk - however flawed it is - if suddenly we didn't have it. </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3499 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:23:38 +0000 ramblesid 3499@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>I think you work in the public sector Mr Square, if we could cut you out of your pension scheme we'd give up a couple of heartbeats </p> http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=1293#post-3498 Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:17:28 +0000 John Square 3498@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/ <p>(My dirty secret- if I could opt out of the NHS for a tax cut, I'd do so in a heartbeat)</p> <p>As an "excessively rich" aside: I too was always told that "money can't buy you love, but it will get you a handjob from some very beautiful models". </p>